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| 35:14-16
- Elihu's words are still quite condemnatory, but, I suspect, were said
with a different and more humble attitude and tone of voice, so that Job
can accept them. He does not condemn Job's 'previous sin'. Instead he condemns
the attitude of bitterness that Job has developed toward God during this
trial. It is this that Job must address in order to restore his position
with his creator. Peter Cresswell [Derby Bass Street (UK)] Comment added in 2001 reply to Peter |
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Elihu continues 35:2
'my righteousness is more than God's draws on Job in 10:7 and so on. Elihu draws heavily on Jobs words in his earlier speeches. Your marginal references and memory will help you notice many more quotations from Job's earlier words. Job 36 Elihu
continues Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2001 reply to Peter |
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| 36:1-4
- See how Elihu gives God the glory. It is this aspect of what he has to
say which makes his words hold where the other 'friends' words didn't. Peter Cresswell [Derby Bass Street (UK)] Comment added in 2002 reply to Peter |
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35:13 In saying 'surely God will not hear vanity' Elihu is implying that Job was vain. Though notice he does not actually make the accusation. He leaves Job to draw his own conclusions. This is an evil way of speaking. If the words are questions then Elihu could easily say 'you are misunderstanding me.' Do we ever talk like this? 36:6-7 This is not strictly correct. The wicked do prosper and the righteous suffer. Given this error in Elihu's reasoning we have to conclude that even though he claimed to be speaking on behalf of God he was not inspired by God to speak as he did. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2002 reply to Peter |
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35:15 And now Elihu asserts that God is angry with Job. Again we must be careful if we choose to form a judgement about what God thinks about anyone else. 36:2 Having (35:15) claimed to know what God thought about Job Elihu now proceeds to speak as if he is the oracle of God - but his words are his own! Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2003 reply to Peter |
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| Job 35:9-13. Elihu is showing in this speech that righteousness does profit a man, but, there are exceptions: Some only cry unto God when they are in trouble. At other times they have no interest in Him. They only pray to get something out of God. God will not answer this type of plea. John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 reply to John |
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35:14-16 We read in these verses the concluding rebuke of Job by Elihu. How could Job expect God to answer him? and that his charges against God placed him in company of sinners. John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 reply to John |
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| In Job 36:18,19 Elihu speaks of riches not being able to save the sinner. The Judge will not be impressed by our possessions. As Bro Cyril Tennant says (The Book of Job CMPA 1991 p101), "A ransom is only possible because God wills it." David Simpson [Birmingham Kings Norton (UK)] Comment added in 2004 reply to David |
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| 36:8-12 If they be afflicted, it is no proof that they are hypocrites, as the friends of Job maintain, or that God disregards them, and is indifferent whether men are good or bad, as Job asserts: God is thereby "disiplining them" and "showing them their sins", and if they bow in a correct spirit under God's visiting hand, the greatest blessings ever are sure to come. 1Cor 2:9 John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 reply to John |
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Elihu explains the treatment that Yahweh gives to the wicked and the righteous (36:6,7). The life of the wicked is not saved; they die never to see the light of day again. However, the poor (humble) (see Matt 5:3) are given that right (privilege). These righteous will be established forever (Matt 13:43). Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 reply to Michael |
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35:4 In saying ‘thy companions …’ Elihu is claiming to both answer Job and also his friends – implying that he was of the opinion that they were in error and that he would be able to sort them out as well! 36:3 In saying that he ascribes righteousness to God Elihu is attacking Job who claimed to be righteous himself a number of times in his speeches - Job 9:15 etc: Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2006 reply to Peter |
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36:4 Whilst Elihu claims his words ‘shall not be false’ he has already – Job 34:8 – uttered one falsehood. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2007 reply to Peter |
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Elihu exhibits some inconsistencies. He presumes to have perfect knowledge and to speak for Yahweh (36:2,4). And yet, he admits that Yahweh is beyond his understanding (36:26). Elihu seems not to recognize that Yahweh is affected by man's righteousness (35:7,8). Yahweh created all things for His pleasure (Rev 4:11). How do things please Yahweh? They respond in appearance and behavior to the way the creator programmed them. With all living things, other than humans, this is automatic. But, humans have been given greater intelligence, a moral code, and free-will. They can choose to obey or disobey Yahweh's commands. If one chooses to obey Yahweh, and stays on that course, then that person is righteous. Challenges on the road of life might cause that person to fall down from time to time, but if he/she gets up and continues, then righteousness is maintained (Prov 24:16). Note that righteousness is not perfection (which will only be attained in the Kingdom of God (1Cor 15:50-54)). Yahweh loves righteousness and those who choose to practice it (Psa 11:7). Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 reply to Michael |
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35:3 “For thou hast said …” shows that Elihu is responding exactly to what Job has said. Whilst we do not see many exact quotations of the words that Job used we realise that Elihu is responding to the sentiments bound up in the words that Job used. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2008 reply to Peter |
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36:7 Elihu concedes that Yahweh is interested in those who are righteous. And, Yahweh will test the righteous (Psa 11:5). 36:21 Elihu warns Job to accept Yahweh's trial and not to sin. The sin is to desire death so as to circumvent the trial. Job wished for death (3:3-5). He had yet to learn that Yahweh tries those whom He loves (Heb 12:6); and that Yahweh will not try a person beyond his/her ability. The lessons for Job are also lessons for us. Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 reply to Michael |
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36:16-18 Elihu seems to be saying that God is capricious and that Job should be careful lest God just punishes him. However God is not capricious. He works by consistent principles so Elihu seems to not correctly understand God. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 reply to Peter |
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35:6-7 Elihu’s presumption that Job’s behaviour has no impact upon God is clearly false. God is concerned with what we do. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2010 reply to Peter |
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| v.13
talks of casting away the 30 pieces of silver to the potter in the temple,
a clear parallel with the actions of Judas when he realised the enormity
of his sin (Matt.27:3-12).
Maybe we should look for other parallels with this time at the end of the
fulfilment of the purpose of God in Jesus. Peter Cresswell [Derby Bass Street (UK)] Comment added in 2001 reply to Peter |
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11:5
for I am rich Hosea 12:8 11:5 'I am rich ...' reflects the thoughts of Ephraim Hosea 5:7 but she did not know that she was 'miserable, poor and naked and' Revelation 3:17 This self delusion which carried on into the captivity separates from God. It can be a problem for ourselves as can be seen from Jesus comment in Revelation 3:17. Spiritual richness is not measured in fleshly terms. Those who are 'rich towards God' demonstrate this richness in their manner of life. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2001 reply to Peter |
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| v.8,9
- The shepherds of the flock are condemned as we have seen before. We each
have the job of leading the flock - doing our bit towards the exhorting
of the whole, so let us beware that we do not fall into condemnation as
these leaders did. The condemnation of the leader is not so much that he
goes astray, but that he leads others to do the same. This is a great sin. Peter Cresswell [Derby Bass Street (UK)] Comment added in 2002 reply to Peter |
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We realise that Matthew quotes part of 11:12 when speaking of the betrayal of Jesus by Judas. However, as the table below shows, the language of this area of Zechariah is very much the basis for the language of Matthew.
The quotation that Matthew makes is not a casual use of Scripture. Rather his is drawing on a theme in Zechariah Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2002 reply to Peter |
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| 11:6
And so, even though the threat of the surrounding nations will be removed
as we saw in the precious chapter the prophet continues to speak of another
destruction of Jerusalem. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2003 reply to Peter |
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| Zech 11:15-17. Reference is made to both a foolish shepherd and an idol shepherd. This we would suggest is the same leader. This shepherd we see will be completely overthrown, losing his arm will leave him useless in battle, and the loose of an eye will certainly leave him in the category of the blind leading the blind. The foolish or idol shepherd will be rendered powerless and the sheep will be converted to Christ “The Good Shepherd” John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 reply to John |
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| 11:1 Again we have 'fire' of judgment like we saw in the prophecy of Amos - a recurring theme speaking of the judgments of God Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2004 reply to Peter |
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| SHEPHERD FOR GOD Zechariah was given the task of pasturing God's flock, the returned exiles of Judah. Zechariah was the man God chose for the job because he had the right spirit in him, because he cared about God's people, was devoted to God, honest and truthful. Previously God had spoken against the people who were shepherding his flock by saying that he was angry with them because they only cared for themselves and not for the sheep. Under Zechariah's influence these worthless shepherds were cast out from their positions. He said, "In one month I got rid of the three shepherds." (Zech 11:8) Zechariah did what was best for the flock. His actions might have seemed harsh, but through them the whole flock would be brought back to God and away from those who only wanted to use them for their own advantage. Human nature does not appreciate God's ways. We read, "The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them and said, 'I will not be your shepherd.'" (v.8-9) Even though Zechariah was the shepherd God had chosen to lead the people in his ways, they detested him. How do we respond to people like Zechariah who take us out of our comfort zones and challenge us to change for God? And if we are leaders of God's people, we need to ask ourselves if we are telling the people what they want to hear because it is easier, or are we speaking the truth in love no matter what the consequences? Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2005 reply to Robert |
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| V.1 The cedar was used as a symbol of the royal house of Judah (Eze 17:3; 4; 12). As the king of trees it sometimes stood for pride (Isa 2:13), which could be reduced to nothing with a few blows of an axe (Isa 10:33-34). It was a particularly apt symbol for foreign nations which had the shameful boldness to reckon themselves independent of God. John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 reply to John |
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The shepherds of v.3 are forces external to Israel (like the shepherds in yesterday's reading). However, the shepherds of subsequent verses mostly have to do with Israel. Largely, this chapter is talking about the role of Zechariah as Israel's shepherd in which he mirrors Christ as the shepherd of Israel (both natural and spiritual). Zechariah was rejected by Israel just as Jesus was. Zechariah was pushed around by Israel, and his insulting wages (v.12) were the same as a slave who had been pushed around (Exo 21:32). Jesus was betrayed for the same amount (vs.12,13). After Zechariah's rejection, Yahweh told him to take on the role of a false shepherd who would bring destruction (vs.15-17). Zechariah had to dispense with three other leaders of Israel (shepherds v.8) who were not doing their job properly. Jesus condemned the three leading elements of His day: the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes. Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 reply to Michael |
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| Israel had been led astray. Their shepherds had not fed them the spiritual diet they so badly needed. In today’s chapter the prophet took two sticks, possibly shepherd’s crooks, and called one Beauty and the other Bands. He then acted the part of a good shepherd, and sacked three more experienced shepherds. This caused very bad feeling. Then he became an example of his Righteous God, and he broke both sticks. No more beauty, no more bands or unity. After he had broken his first stick the people realised that this word was of God (Zech 11:11). They paid him his wages, (30 pieces of silver), which he was told not to keep, but to cast it to the potter – there shouldn’t actually have been a potter in the House of God, should there? Then Bands, or Binding was broken, signifying God’s breaking His bands with Israel while they were dispersed. David Simpson [Birmingham Kings Norton (UK)] Comment added in 2005 reply to David |
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11:1 Having spoken of judgment upon Tyre in chapter 9 along with judgment upon others Zechariah now turns to speak of judgment upon Lebanon. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2006 reply to Peter |
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11:17 In speaking of the arms of the idol shepherds being ‘dried up’ Zechariah is alluding to 13:4 when a man who tried to oppose the prophet of God was punished. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2007 reply to Peter |
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11:8 We have seen other links to the earlier prophet Hosea. Here we have another one. The shepherds which were to be ‘cut off in one month’ echoes Hos 5:7. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2008 reply to Peter |
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This chapter is primarily talking about the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar in the 6th. Century BC. Then, there can be a secondary prophetic application. V.1 The temple is being referred to hear and not the country of Lebanon. Cedars from Lebanon were brought down to construct the temple (1Kin 5:10; 6:9). The destruction of the temple is figuratively portrayed by Ezekiel (Eze 17:3). V.17 This is an end time prophecy concerning the false prophet who opposes the Truth. He and his apostate system of worship will be destroyed by the Lord Jesus when He returns (2Thess 2:3,4; Rev 16:13;19:20; 20:10).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 reply to Michael |
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11:6 The way in which every man’s hand will be against his neighbour is a way in which God brings deliverance to Israel. Their enemies flight against themselves whilst Israel, in faithfulness, watch on. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 reply to Peter |
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TRUST THE SHEPHERD God is still our shepherd. He leads us. We need to ask ourselves if we will accept God's leadership or if we will question and doubt and despise the way he leads us because it is not the way we think we want to go. When the flock detested Zechariah, he left them to their own devices to destroy themselves. Let's not detest God's leadership of us or he may do the same. Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2009 reply to Robert |
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11:6 Israel have been back in the land for a very short time. However God is going to punish ‘the inhabitants of the land’ which indicates that the return from Babylon did not bring with it Godliness, nor were Israel a good example to the inhabitants surrounding them. Therefore judgment was to come. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2010 reply to Peter |
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| 13:9
- Oh that we might be listed amongst those who had an ear. This talks of
childlike faith and an openminded thirst for the things of God, always desiring
to hear more and to understand more and to love more and to pray more, that
we might by God's grace be with Him for evermore. Peter Cresswell [Derby Bass Street (UK)] Comment added in 2001 reply to Peter |
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12:3 The use of 'dragon' catches the way that the Old Testament speaks of nations as dragons. Babylon Jeremiah 51:34 and Egypt Ezekiel 29:3 are both styled as dragons. This dragon catches the evil of mankind in its opposition to God. Indeed by calling the dragon 'the old serpent Revelation 12:7 we are taken back to the garden of Eden and the original lie which opposed God. So even if we cannot actually identify the dragon of this chapter we know the sort of things it does and so can avoid association with it. 13:1-2 This terrible beast which John saw is a composite of the beasts which Daniel saw Daniel 7:3-8. We know from Daniel that those beasts represent the four kingdoms of Daniel 2. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2001 reply to Peter |
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Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2002 reply to Peter |
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The quotation from Genesis 3 shows, that despite all the pomp and power of the nations they are in reality just the seed of the serpent and so will be destroyed by Christ at his return.
So we are back with the image which Nebuchadnezzar set up. A pattern of the kingdom of men. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2003 reply to Peter |
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12:11 In saying that some "loved not their lives unto death" Jesus quotes his own words (Luke 14:26) as an encouragement to those who had to live through the period this chapter speaks of. 13 The repeated quotations from Daniel 7 shown above highlight that Revelation is concerned with a power which bore the characteristics of those nations spoken of in Daniel. Revelation 13 speaks of a composite of the nations alluded to in Daniel 7. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2004 reply to Peter |
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| 13:18 Wisdom is found in properly identifing the "beast", and maintaining a strict separateness from it. It is significant that this phrase is repeated in Rev 17:9 where it is more clearly identified. John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 reply to John |
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A quick overview of these two chapters shows that they deal with the rise of the apostate church that would oppose the Truth and its believers. The apostate church was able to operate with the blessing of the Emperor Constantine who embraced Christianity for his own political ends. Thus, Imperial Rome became the state sponsor of the so-called Christian church. Constantine endorsed the Council of Nicaea's declaration of the doctrine of the Trinity (325 AD), and commanded that it must be believed by all Christians. Those who did not were deemed heretics and subject to abuse. This abuse continued for many centuries resulting in horrible conditions and death for true believers. The Lord Jesus will finally destroy this false system of worship when He returns. Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 reply to Michael |
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12:5 The woman flees into the wilderness pursued by the red dragon. A woman is seen coming out of the wilderness riding a scarlet coloured beast – Rev 17:3. What is the relationship between these two women? 13:9 ‘If any man have an ear …’ is a challenge that Jesus made during his ministry Matt 11:13 etc: The challenge of the book of Revelation is no different from the rest of Scripture. It is a call to repentance and a taking heed to the words of God. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2006 reply to Peter |
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| 12:6 The place prepared of God was found "in the wilderness", which suggests an area remote from the normal abiding place of man. This has been the case in the past, by going into a remote area, one for the most part has been able to become except from persecution. John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 reply to John |
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13:17 We should not confine our thinking to commercial trading when we read of buying and selling. Prov 23:23 speaks of the ‘truth’ in terms of buying and selling. Isa 55:1 speaks of buying ‘without price’ clearly speaking of the message of salvation. Here in Revelation we see a situation where the promulgation of the gospel is controlled by men – as the Roman Catholic Church has, in the past, told it’s adherents that they should not read the Bible. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2007 reply to Peter |
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| 12:13 The true followers of Christ were opposed and persecuted by the remnants of paganism where it remained in power. John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 reply to John |
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13:7 In making war and overcoming the saints the language of Dan 7:21is echoed. The context in Daniel is that at this time the ‘Ancient of days’ will stand to deliver the saints. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2008 reply to Peter |
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12:10 The deliverance from the powers of the previous verse bringing salvation is based upon the destruction of the power of sin through the works of the seed of the woman as outlined in Genesis 3. Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 reply to Peter |
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| The Devil And Satan - part 3 of 3 [lesson 12 of 20 from "Outline of Basic Bible Teachings" by Wes Booker (for part 1 see July 3, Matthew 3 - or for part 2 see July 15, Matthew 16)]
IV. Wrested passages used to try and prove that the devil, Satan = supernatural fallen angel: A. Rev 12:7-9 1. Compare 1:1 - things SHORTLY to come to pass 2. Why is the disclosure of the devil's true identity reserved for the last book of the Bible? And why is it used in such a symbolic setting (verses 1-6)? 3. Verse 9 says serpent, devil, Satan = great red dragon, having seven heads, ten horns, seven crowns on his head. This sounds figurative, not literal. 4. In the Lord's prayer, it says "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." If God's will is always done in heaven, then how could there be an actual rebellion of angels, and some cast out? Heavens here are symbolic - Isa 1:2,10;Deut 31:30;32:1 5. When this happens (verses 7-9), then verse 10 says that it brings about the kingdom of God and power of His Christ. How does this fit something that supposedly happened before creation? B. Isaiah 14 1. A proverb of the king of Babylon (verse 14) i.e. Assyria-Babylon (verse 25) 2. Verse 13 - he wanted to ascend into heaven, to exalt his throne above the stars - the fallen angel was supposedly already in heaven 3. Verse 13 - "I will sit upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the North". The king of Babylon-Assyria wanted to take Jerusalem - Psa 48:2; Isaiah 36 & 37 may be historical fulfillment - see especially Isa 37:37-38. 4. Verse 16 "Is this the MAN...?" 1. Jesus saw it. How could it then refer to something before creation? 2. The passage does not say that Satan fell from heaven. It says that his fall was swift as lightening falling from heaven. It refers to demons being in subjection to the seventy disciples (see verses 17,19). Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2009 reply to Charles |
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While some of Revelation is quite clear, Im not fully confident in any of the various interpretations. When Christ returns the faithful will fully understand (1Cor 13:12). Rev 12:1 - Heaven refers to political heavens. A woman clothed with the sun, etc. is not literal. We have a similar description in Genesis (Gen 37:9-11) and it is suggested the sun is Jacob, the moon Leah, the stars leaders of the 12 tribes of Israel so the woman would be the ideal Israel at this stage. The woman finds her true beginning with Eve and the serpent (i.e. sin) is standing before her ready to devour her seed upon birth (Gen 3:15-16;Isa 7:14;Matt 1:21-23). Rev 12:2 - Israel suffered waiting for the redeemer to be delivered (Rom 8:22). Rev 12:3 - We have a red dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns (Rev 12:9-10) and similar beasts (Rev 13:1;Rev 17:3). The red dragon is the accuser of the brethren, is universally hostile to God's people (esp. the son of this woman) and gives power to the beast (Rev 13:2) which would be human institutions opposed to that which is good (Eph 6:12). Rev 12:4 - The stars cast down to heaven have an echo in Daniel (Dan 8:3,9,10) which suggests persecutions of the people of God would be from roots following Alexander the Great's empire. The dragon is the sum of human sinfulness and operates through human powers (i.e. the beast). Rev 12:5 - The child is elevated to the highest position he could attain. Christ will rule all nations with a rod of iron (Psa 2:6-12;110:1-2;Isa 11:1,4;Gen 49:10;Num 24:17,19;Psa 45:6-7;Matt 2:1-2;Heb 1:8;Rev 2:27-28;Rev 22:16;Rev 19:15-16). Rev 12:6 - At various times the woman is in the wilderness. Herod attempted to kill the young child (Jer 31:15;Matt 2:13-19). 1260 days may refer to Christ's ministry along with John the Baptist's literal and spiritual wilderness preparation with Israel (Isa 40:3;Matt 3:1-3). The woman has a coming apostacy (Rev 12:14). Rev 12:7-9 - This is language used of the proud king of Babylon's fall (Isa 14:12) and demonstrates how Christ's crucifixion brought the power of sin to an end. Christ healed fleshly infirmities, and through his crucifixion and resurrection defeated sin, personified by the devil, so believers might have hope (Luke 10:17-18;John 12:31-33;Gen 3:15;Heb 2:14,17;Heb 4:15;1John 3:8). Rev 12:10-12 - Despite Christ's victory over sin, which gives believers hope of eternal life, sin is still a force to be reckoned with (Rom 8:1,33-39). Rev 12:13 - Ideal Israel had given birth to Christ and true Christianity but there would be major challenges that lie ahead. Rev 12:14 - The woman would become apostate (Zech 5:7-11). Shinar is short for Babylon (Gen 11:2;Isa 11:11;Dan 1:2). Rev 12:17 - The dragon (sin and the sinful institutions controlled by the dragon) goes after those who who obey God's commandments and hold on to the testimony of Jesus Christ. The dragon (personification of sin) of chapters 12 through 20 is the same. The above sketch was mostly gleaned from Apocalypse For Everyman by A.D. Norris, pps 206-225. Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2009 reply to Charles |
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13:18 The numbered beast is contrasted with the lamb of the next chapter. (Rev 14:1) . Peter Forbes [Glenfield (UK)] Comment added in 2010 reply to Peter |
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