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However much we like to think that we do things of our own free will, this chapter leaves us in no doubt who was in charge here. God was deciding who should have which parts of the world for their inheritance and there was no arguing with it. Surely he oversees our lives the same way, as we are also his people, and arranges what is best for us. We should therefore be astute and awake to this possibility. Heb.12:6
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
Connections with John 5
2:3 | 'long enough' | John 5:6 | 'long time' |
2:3 | 'turn ye' | John 5:8 | 'take up ...' |
2:14 | 'thirty eight years' | John 5:5 | 'thirty and eight' |
The healing of the lame man is typical of Israel's travels in the wilderness. Just as he had 'no man' [John 5:7] and needed the Lord to save him Israel were not able to deliver themselves. Just at Israel were delivered from the wilderness the man was delivered from his infirmity.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
There is much in this chapter to show us that God had ordained just who should have which borders. Some for these people and some (v.9,19) for the children of Lot. It makes us realise that the current fighting and unrest in the Middle East today is quite futile. This is God determining, as He always has, who should own what.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
2:1 We should remember that Deuteronomy is a recounting of what has happened - we are reminded of this by 'we turned' etc and so on throughout the whole of the book.
2:24 And so Israel are reminded that God had kept His word in the past - an incentive to believe Him now when the nation were on the borders of their inheritance.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
In this chapter we learn of part of the details of the journey around the coast of Israel. (:4, 9, 18, 19, 24) So we can be sure what has happened so far in their journeying.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
2:4-12 The instruction to 'meddle not' with the children of Esau and the Moabites was because they were blood relatives of Israel. Specific promises had been made to them (2:5,9). Israel were to make a difference between their cousins and brothers and the inhabitants of the land.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.1 "We compassed mount Seir many days" In these few words Moses comprised the whole of that wandering nomadic life through which they passed during the thirty eight years, shifting from place to place.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Israel was not to disinherit the Edomites (Deut 2:2-8). But when Saul became king, who did he fight against? Edom (see 1Sam 14:47). No wonder he was disinherited by God.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
V.6 Yahweh had provided food and water directly for Israel during the wilderness journey. But now they would have to deal with other people for this provision. Thus begins the interaction between other nations. If they remembered the words of Moses through Deuteronomy, then their dealings with others would be circumspect. If they forgot Yahweh, they would become like other nations. We too must remember that on our sojourn we must remain separate from the world.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
2:19-21 In the detail about how Ammon received the land that they lived in was a demonstration to Israel that God was capable of delivering people from giants. ‘but the Lord destroyed them’
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
V.1 After their unsuccessful attack upon the Canaanites, The Children of Israel broke up their encampment at Kadesh, journeying southward over the west desert of Tih, as well as through the great valley of the Ghor and Arabah, they would have travelled as far as the gulf of Akaba.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
WORK BEGUN BY GOD
As Israel stood on the border of the territory of Sihon king of Heshbon, God said a very interesting thing to Moses. He said, "See, I have begun to deliver Sihon and his country over to you. Now begin to conquer and possess his land." (Deut 2:31) In a work unseen by the children of Israel, God had begun the battle with Sihon king of Heshbon. God had put a spirit of terror and fear on Sihon and his people. Now it was up to Israel to conquer and possess the land. Having had God begin the work, Israel had a responsibility to go in and continue it. With God's help they would bring it to completion.
There are many events throughout Scripture that God began and his people had to continue. But it is not just in the lives of people long ago that God began to work. He has done the same in our lives too. Paul said to the Philippines, "He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil 1:6) God has begun a good work in our lives. That does not mean that we just sit back and wait to see how we turn out. Like Israel, we need to take what God has started and begin to develop, conquer and possess our characters, doing our part in the work that was begun and will be completed by God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Robert
2:19 The way in which Ammon was not to be meddled with indicates that Israel’s taking of the land was not simply a matter of might wins. The giving of the land of Canaan was according to how God wanted Israel to take the land. Only what He had promised was to be theirs.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
2:14 The outbreak at Kadesh on the false report of the spies had been the occasion of the decree by which God doomed the whole adult population to die in the wilderness. For that generation, though not universally abandoned to heathenish and idolatrous practices, yet had all along displayed a fearful amount of ungodliness while wandering in the desert, which this history spoken of by Moses only hints at obscurely, but is expressly recorded in other records (Amos 5:25; 27, Acts 7:42)
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
2:11 The use of the present tense ‘call’ when speaking of the way that the Moabites call the Anakims Emims rather than ‘called’ highlights that the record in Deuteronomy s contemporary, rather than having been written after the events of the wilderness journey.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
2:9 the children of Lot had benefited from Lot being a ‘just man’ and so Israel were to remember this even though the children of Lot were not faithful to God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
First Principles>Kingdom of God>Existed in the past
8. The Wilderness Journey from Egypt to Canaan was 40 years long. Exo 16:35 Num 14:33 Num 32:13 Deut 2:7 Deut 8:2,4 Deut 29:5 Josh 5:6 Neh 9:21 Psa 95:10 Acts 7:36 Acts 13:18 Heb 3:9,17. Go to Gen 12:1-5 for more about First Principles>Kingdom of God>Existed in the past
Roger Turner [Lichfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Roger
V.8 Yahweh told Israel that He would not give them any Edomite land (v.5). But, David conquered Edom (2Sam 8:14). Later Amaziah went to conquer Edom but did not complete the conquest. His son Azariah (alternatively known as Uzziah) conquered and restored Elath (2Kin 14:21,22). Later, Rezin king of Syria drove Judah from Elath (2Kin 16:6).
Elath is situated at the eastern end of the Gulf of Akaba. Today, the town is called Akaba and is in Jordan.
The modern Israeli town of Eilat should not be confused with the Biblical Elath. It is also situated on the Gulf of Akaba but west of the town of Akaba.
Ezion-gaber is now a dry bed about 10 miles north of the Gulf of Akaba in the Arabah (all the south land of Israel down to the Gulf of Akaba). In Biblical times, it would have been situated at the northern end of the Gulf of Akaba. But, over the years, the Gulf waters have receded in some places.
V.10 Emmims means terrible men. They were a warlike tribe of Canaanite giants similar to the Anakims, and associated with the Rephaim (giants named after Rapha).
V.20 The Zamzummims are associated with the Zuzims. These and other giants were defeated by Chedorlaomar (Gen 14:5).
V.23 Avims (Avvim) were people who dwelt along the coast of present-day Israel. They were destroyed by the invading Caphtorim who came from Caphtor. We know Caphtor as the island of Crete today, and the Caphtorim were the Philistines. The Philistines would have significant, adverse dealings with the Israelites once the latter were established in the land.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
2:4-8 Whilst Moses is recounting an historical event about the matter of Edom a principle is being laid down about how Israel were to treat their brother’ in the future.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
2:14 Thirty eight as a number appears rarely in Scripture. One other location is John 5:5 where Jesus healed a man who had been thirty eight years a cripple. The time Israel wandered in the wilderness was a pattern of Israel being lost. The healing of the man in John 5 shows Jesus as the one who will heal the nation and bring them into the land of their inheritance.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
2:16-19 As all the rebels have now died we can conclude that the events spoken of by Moses happened after the Balaam incident.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
More connections with John 5 on the spiritual state of Israel to add to Brother Peter’s.
“Rise up…” |
“Rise take up…” |
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“thirty-eight years” for Israel’s generation of men of war to perish. |
Israel, “had an infirmity thirty and eight years.” |
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“Rise up…” |
“Rise ye up…” |
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“nations…tremble” in anguish because of thee.” |
“angel… troubled the water (i.e. nations).” |
Another connection with John 5, the lame man was "immediately made whole and walked" (John 5:9) carrying his bed. At the command of Joshua (typical of Jesus) "the people (Israel) hasted to pass over" the Jordan (Josh 4:10).
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
2:30 The historical record is found inNum 21:22. Whilst there is no indication in the Numbers account we learn here that God’s plan required that Sihon would not accept the peaceable offer of Israel to pass through his land.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
One of three promised lands
We tend to think of Israel as completely unique, but did you know that God had worked with two nations in much the same way before He worked with Israel? Inv12 we see that He had brought Esau's descendants to their promised land and driven out the inhabitants for them. In v19-22 it's even more emphatic, mentioning what God did for both Esau and Lot:
"but the LORD destroyed them before them, and they dispossessed them and dwelled in their place".
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Rob
2:10 here and elsewhere in this chapter Moses reminded the people that despite the presence of giants God had given land to people such as the Moabites. Remember it was fear of “giants” that had deterred Israel from entering the land the first time they arrived at its borders. Num 13:33
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
2:5 God made promises both to Jacob and to Esau. Israel were expected to honour the promise that God had made to Esau.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
2:31 So we learn that God had spoken to Moses about Sihon and had specifically told Moses that Israel would take control of their land. This additional information is not found in the historical account of Israel taking the land of Sihon.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
2:4,9,19 the nations mentioned there who Israel let remain in their own lands became a problem to Israel and needed to be dealt with in the days of Jehoshaphat – 2Chron 20:12
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
2:4 Notice that Esau would be “afraid” of Israel. We do not learn of other nations in the area who were afraid of Israel. Though Rahab, because of her faith, was sure that God would give Israel the land of Canaan.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
2:10-12 We come across the Emims and Horims in Gen 14:5-6which is why they are mentioned as being “in old times”. An indication that when Moses spoke to Israel at the border of the land of Canaan they were familiar with the events associated with Melchisedec as spoken of in Genesis 14.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
2:11,20, 3:11,13 The repeated use of the words “giants” was to remind Israel that God had subdued countries inhabited by giants as words of encouragement to the nation who had said that they were unable to go into the land of Canaan because there were giants there – Num 13:11
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
2:23 Another change of ownership of territory. However, unlike the previous two mentions on this occasion there is no indication that God was involved. Maybe this is not surprising as none of those involved were apparently descendants of Abraham.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
2:22 Another example of God working for a son of Abraham – Esau
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
2:20-21 Notice. God gave the land to the Ammonites [the children of Lot] by dispossessing the Zamzummim. Here we see that God worked on behalf of other relatives of Abraham.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
v. 3 - To rejoice, or make glad, his father is a common phrase in Proverbs [10:1, 15:20, 23:15, 24-25, 27:11]. The implications for us are obvious - it is a reference to our relationship with God through Jesus, who was the ultimate in wise sons who made his Father glad, whereby we are able to interact freely with Him. Luke 1:13-17.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
29:14 Solomon reminded God that David was told that as long as his sons kept the law he would not want a son to sit on his throne. [1 Kings 8:25]. This proverb indicates that faithfulness to God requires faithful judging of the poor. Commitment to God requires a particular behaviour to men and women.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
v.15 - There is so much in Proverbs to remind us that our children, like us, are naturally wicked. The responsibility is on us to recognise this fact and chasten them in the love of the gospel. (v.17,21, 22:6,15, 23:13,14, Heb.12:10,11)
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:1 The purpose of reproof is that the one being reproved changes the way he behaves and thinks. He is 'exercised' in the chastening [Hebrews 12:11] The rebellious person does not profit from the chastening - rather he becomes stiff necked and unsuitable for the kingdom of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
:25-27 We have a progression through these verses. It is so easy to place confidence in men who can be seen rather than in God who cannot. However, in the end the visible man is unreliable whilst the invisible God is the one to trust.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
29:8 In saying 'wise men turn away wrath' Hezekiah is developing Prov 15:1 where the 'soft answer' turns away wrath.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.18 "No vision" Instruction in God's truth, which was by the prophets, through visions. 1Sam 3:1 "People perish" Made naked; are deprived of moral restraints. "Keepeth the law" has and observes instruction. Psa 19:11, Prov 14:11,34
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
In v20 we have a proverb with the same ending as 26:12. I wonder if the rest of the proverb in each instance is linked too? Is it possible that a man wise in his own eyes will naturally be hasty in his words too? It would make sense, and we see examples of it in Bildad, Zophar, and Eliphaz (Job 42:7). These men were old and grey haired. They thought they had reason to trust in their wisdom and to speak freely!
But it is clear that they shouldn't have. We can compare this with the wisdom of Elihu. He was very much younger and had waited patiently, listening to their false discourse (Job 32:4). Although Elihu seems to be extremely wise in his own sight (33:3), this was not in fact the case. He had waited meekly without saying anything, perhaps for days (32:11). He had given preference to the elders, believing his own words to be little use compared to theirs (32:6-7). In doing this, he had fulfilled the advice of the proverbs. His wisdom was that of James 3:13,17. The heavenly wisdom which is characterised by meekness. His confidence was in that wisdom, rather than in himself.
The point, I think, is this. There are two types of wisdom. The wisdom from above (heavenly, spiritual, meek), or that from below (earthly, sensual, hasty) James 3:15. It may not be immediately evident which one is being claimed when a man seems wise in his own eyes. We ought not to group them together and say that all claim to wisdom is wrong. Elihu claimed wisdom, as did our Lord Jesus. They both received that wisdom from above, by meekly receiving the implanted word (James 1:21). Their delivery of that wisdom; though they were definite and sure of themselves; was done in meekness and humility before the God who had provided it.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Rob
Prov 29:1 says that a hard-hearted man shuts his mind to repeated reproofs. He becomes so adept at shutting his ears and his mind, that real danger can engulf him at a most unexpected time.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
Matt 6:21 says: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. It is impossible to have one's heart in a place that is not alive with expectation and excitement. Moreover, one cannot be excited about something that one cannot visualise. Hence, we see the importance of developing such a vision (v.18). Our treasure is the Kingdom. Thus, it is important to develop a strong picture of the Kingdom. Sure the image might be incomplete, or differ in some aspects to those of our brethren's, but that does not matter. A strong, personal, vision is what is required. To begin, dig out the references to the Kingdom (Psa 72; Isa 11:6-9; Mic 4:3; Zech 8:3-5 etc.) and start the imagination rolling.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
29:24 In speaking of one who is ‘partner’ with the thief the wise man is making the point that involvement with evil actions makes one as evil as the perpetrator of that evil. It is a matter of fellowship, in Biblical parlance. It is not possible to be associated with evil practices and yet not be tainted by them.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
29:2 We know this to be true of worldly governments. We should not be tempted to think of the less corrupt Western powers being better than the corrupt rulership of some other countries. In reality all human government falls short of the Divine ideal. Therefore the only time that the principles outlined in the ‘righteous’ will be seen is when the righteous judge – the lord Jesus – returns to take the kingdoms of this world to himself.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
29:1 Solomon is here returning to what he said earlier – Prov 6:15– making the point that there eventually will come a time when the son who does not listen to his father’s rebuke will finally learn that the time for judgement will come. This is rather like Israel who, being repeatedly reproved by God, were left to their own devices – Psa 81:12
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
V.2 Some of us live in countries where the rule of law operates. Unfortunately, there are others who live in countries where the rulers are cruel and ruinous. Nevertheless, wherever we live, and under whatever conditions we find ourselves, we are asked to pray for our rulers, in the hope that they will allow us to live in peace (1Tim 2:1,2).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
29:3 We might not think that the only two options that are available to the son are ‘wisdom’ and ‘harlots’ but Solomon is returning to the theme that he has developed in Proverbs 7 where the son who did not listen to the words of God ended up snared by the harlot of false worship.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.5 Be careful because a flatterer has an ulterior motive. He does not flatter to please you but wishes to profit from something, maybe at your expense.
V.6 See Prov 12:13.
V.13 the LORD lighteneth both their eyes means that Yahweh is the maker of both the poor and the oppressor (the rich) (Prov 22:2).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
29:4-7 This series of couplets highlights the different effects of faithfulness and self seeking. Faithfulness benefits many. Selfishness benefits one person – and then only for a short time with disastrous consequences for others.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
29:9 How true this is. There is no benefit in reasoning with someone who will not listen to reason. It is better to leave such an one to their own devices rather than become embroiled in debate to no profit.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
Prov 29:1 – Sihon King of Heshbon is an example in the first of today’s daily readings, of someone who rejected the Lord’s request. In this case, to let Israel pass by him (Deut 2:26-35). He hardened his spirit and he became obstinate (Deut.5:30). God then delivered him into the hands of Israel and he was suddenly destroyed Deut 5:33-35.
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
29:18 The couplet in this verse draws a parallel between having a vision and keeping the law. This is an important parallel. Keeping the Law (God’s commandments) is not simply a matter of observing rules. It is all about having a vision – the vision is ‘that thy days might be long ...’ Exo 20:12. Our vision is the counterpart of this – the kingdom of God which is to come.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
29:3 There is joy in heaven when one sinner repents –Luke 15:7 – likewise our Father rejoices when we in “wisdom” keep His word.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
1. Prov 29:1-14 - how to govern wisely.
2. Prov 29:1 - "remedy"<4832> of the 16 occurrences of "marpe", once is in reference to physical healing and 15 times used in a spiritual sense (often in relation to sin).
3. Prov 29:2 - good things tend to happen when the righteous rule.
4. Prov 29:3 - Luke 15:11-31.
5. Prov 29:4 - (NIV) "By justice a king gives a country stability, but those who are greedy for bribes tear it down".
6. Prov 29:5 - (Dan 6:3-28;Luke 20:20-26;1Cor 3:19).
7. Prov 29:6 - (Isa 8:13-15;1Kin 22:11-34).
8. Prov 29:7 - "poor"<1800> - Job 29:12-17.
9. Prov 29:8 - Scornful people are troublemakers, but wise people are peacemakers.
10. Prov 29:9 - "foolish"<191> - avoid controversies with foolish people.
11. Prov 29:10 - (Gen 3:14-15;4:5-8;John 15:18,25;Heb 11:36-37;Rev 17:6;John 3:15).
12. Prov 29:11 - "fool"<3684> - control yourself, or end up a fool.
13. Prov 29:12 - in a family setting, children observe a parent's hypocrisy, and that can become an excuse for the children to misbehave; in a church setting, behaviors of the elders can influence the behaviors of the rest of the flock.
14. Prov 29:13 - "poor"<7326> - (Acts 10:34;Matt 5:42-45).
15. Prov 29:14 - "poor"<1800> - the only king who completely fulfilled this was Christ (Psa 72:1-2,4,7,11,13,14;Isa 9:7;11:1-4,9).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Charles
16. Prov 29:15 - without discipline there is insubordination (1Sam 2:22-25;3:13).
17. Prov 29:16 - (Hab 1:1-3,13;2:2-4,12-14).
18. Prov 29:17 - (1Sam 2:22-25;3:13;Heb 12:2-11).
19. Prov 29:18 - "vision"<2377> - (Mic 3:5-7;Phil 3:13-14;Heb 12:2;Matt 5:17).
20. Prov 29:19 - if we do not respond to God's Word, He will correct us by trial.
21. Prov 29:20 - James 1:19.
22. Prov 29:22 - are anger and hot tempers connected to pride? (1Sam 22:3-19;Matt 2:16;Acts 7:54-59).
23. Prov 29:23 - even the proud don't like to see displays of pride in others (Matt 23:12;Luke 14:11;18:14;James 4:6,10).
24. Prov 29:24 - (NET) "Whoever shares with a thief is his own enemy; he hears the oath to testify, but does not talk" - (Prov 1:10-19;Lev 5:1).
25. Prov 29:25 - (Isa 51:12-13;57:12-13;Acts 2:24,32-33;Matt 10:28).
26. Prov 29:26 - (Psa 146:3;Acts 24:25-27;1Cor 4:3-5).
27. Prov 29:27 - the way to eternal life versus the way to eternal death (Matt 10:22;Rev 17:1-6,9;2Cor 6:14-18;Gen 3:14-15;Rev 19:11-16;20:15).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Charles
29:16 As we look at the western society we see, more and more, increasing numbers of men and women, even those in positions of status, turning away from God’s laws. So iniquity is increasing. However we have the comfort that one day it will all end. God’s kingdom will be established in righteousness. Isa 32:1
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
29:15 We are again reminded that chastening is crucial – Prov 31:11-13
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
29:12-13 From these Proverbs it is clear that the way in which we behave impacts on others. Some will be encouraged to imitate our ways. The challenge is to always set a good, Christ like, example.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
“If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.”
“It requires wisdom on each side—that is, the quick perception of facts, and candour in the recognition of them—before argument, public or private, can be conducted with any beneficial result. If one of the combatants is dull and perverse, the keenness and candour of the other is thrown away; he might as well speak to a horse. Banter or earnest appeal, the result is the same. ‘There is no rest,’ and cannot be. A wise man recognizing this, avoids collision with such, in obedience to another proverb, which says, ‘Go from the presence of a foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge’ (xiv. 7). The fool’s policy takes the opposite direction. ‘A fool’s lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes’ (xviii. 6). When two such get together, what a whirlwind!”
Bro. Robert Roberts
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Valerie
29:18 the word translated “perish” in the King James version <6544> is also found in Exo 32:25 where it is translated “naked”, The point being made is that without a revelation from God the people – we – will descend to a state of nakedness before God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
29:10 whilst the wicked seek to find fault with the sinner the righteous will pray for that person – James 5:19-20
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
29:20 we should realise that the desire to be rich tends to cloud one’s judgment. Not that a rich man cannot show blessings. Rather we should be careful that in our endeavours we should not forget to help others.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
29:20 we have read similar words – Prov 12:18 – to the counsel here. The warning is that our lips can cause great damage.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
29:9 There are circumstances where it is pointless continuing a discussion. When the other, as a “fool” is not listening to the reasoning. No amount of words or demeanour will instruct. The reason? The “fool” has decided not to listen to the instruction.
Maybe one of the hardest things to do is to, metaphorically, walk away from an unprofitable, directionless, discussion especially when we know we are right!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
29:7 Whilst the contrast is clear it is worth noting that the process of ignoring the needs of others of itself is sin. JJames 4:17
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
29:17 We are God’s sons and he corrects us but how do we respond? Do we give our Father delight because of how we respond to His chastening, or are we rebellious and need to be corrected time and time again over the same issue?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
v.4-6 - There is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that Judas could well have been Mary and Martha and Lazarus' brother (see Peter Forbes' comment below). This is a typical comment here to be made from brother to sister - and we are told his motivation too - a further insight into the mind of this man who was chosen carefully for the task that he had in bringing about God's purpose. Let us be sure that we are not that type of disciple. ch.6:70,71.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
It would appear that Judas was Lazarus' brother and Mary and Martha were his sisters. Judas Iscariot was Simon's son [12:4, 13:2]. Lazarus was Mary and Martha's brother [11:21,32]. The meal took place in Simon's house [Matthew 26:2] As they prepared the meal in the house we can conclude that it was their home as well.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
12:2-11 is in parenthesis. The meal here described which took place in Bethany took place two days before the Passovers (Matt 26:2 Mark 14:1) it is recorded here out of chronological sequence because John wishes us to link it with the raising of Lazarus. The meal was to commemorate the resurrection of Lazarus which had taken place a few months earlier.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
The Pharisees held some very strong views. They were leaders in the time of Jesus and held a great influence among the people and especially on their followers. One of the official Pharisee beliefs was that Jesus was not the Messiah because he performed miracles on the Sabbath and challenged the Pharisee's authority. But the teachings of Jesus made so much sense, especially as they were accompanied by so many amazing miracles that left no other explanation other than that Jesus was the Messiah, many of the Jewish leaders did believe. In fact, of all the Jewish leaders, it was the Pharisees that ended up being the most readily converted to Christianity after the resurrection. But here we read of a problem. "Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God."
Do we have the same thoughts they did? "I believe but ... I like doing this; I like it this way; I can't change; It would make life too difficult; I have family and possessions to think about ..."
Let's pray that God would move in our hearts to take away the excuses and give us strength so that we will truly say, "I believe!"
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Robert
:13-15 The twofold use of Scripture here:
'Hosanna ... name of the Lord Psa 118:26
'Fear not ... colt' Zechariah 9:9
present two aspects of what was happening. The people shouted a Psalm that related to Passover and the kingship of Messiah whereas actually even though prophecies about Jesus (Zechariah 9:9) were being fulfilled the event they were involved in was not the complete fulfilment of those prophecies.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
V.16 Due to a lack of understanding, the twelve did not immediately understand that the act of Christ was the fulfilment of the prophecy of Zech 9:9, and that by means of, it He was proclaiming Himself to be the Messiah. Christ was glorified by the resurrection: We note in V.24 that there must be death, before fruit can come forth. (nature's reproduction)
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
12:44 Jesus has repeatedly (John 4:34, 6:38, 7:16, 9:4) said that he is doing his Father's work. Maybe the emphasis now is because the common people are so enthused about his entry into Jerusalem that they want to make him king. Jesus resisted this temptation, focusing his audience on his Father.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
V.13 The people took palm branches when meeting Jesus. Palm trees are a symbol of righteousness which were displayed Solomon's temple and will be displayed in the new kingdom temple (1Kin 6:29; Psa 92:12; Eze 41:25,26).
V.28 If Jesus were God (as some suppose), then it makes this verbal exchange difficult to understand.
Vs.44,49 Make it clear that Jesus was talking about a person other than Himself. He was talking about His Father in heaven. Therefore, Jesus and God are two different persons. The notion of the Trinity is false, having been developed from pagan ideas.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Michael
V.10 In order to gain their objective, the chief priests were willing to kill not only Jesus but also Lazarus. Lazarus was an offence to them for two reasons; the one stated here " on account of him, many of the Jews were going away believing in Jesus" Lazarus had been raised from the dead and the chief priests, being Sadducees, did not believe in the resurrection. So they plotted to kill him also, hoping in all probability that he would not rise again. It appears that their desire to put Lazarus to death, was not carried out.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
12:8 ‘The poor always ye have with you’ is not a cynical comment about the poor in contrast to the fact that Jesus was going to be crucified. It is a quotation from Deut 15:11 which teaches that as long as Israel do not keep the law there will be poor people.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
Jesus was the king of the Jews. The people were shouting it aloud in the streets! He came fulfilling the prophecies of the Christ; the "anointed", and they recognised it!
Yet they hadn't accepted him as their saviour and spiritual head. Their leaders wanted to kill him, and his message of the gospel had largely been ignored. They wanted a leader on their own terms, rather than God's terms. They wanted someone who could produce bread to satisfy a multitude, but didn't want to receive the bread of life (6:26-27).
But this had always been in God's plan. It was not enough for Jesus to be king of the Jews. He was to be King of the whole world! With the Jewish rejection of him would come the acceptance of the gentiles. This seems to be the main thrust of this chapter, starting at v20. Greeks had come to Jesus to see him. Instead of granting them audience, he says the following: "unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain... if anyone serves me, let him follow me; and where I am there my servant will be also" (24-26). What he meant by this was that in his present capacity of king of the Jews he had very limited reach (especially with the gentiles). Also in his present mortal state he could only travel as far as his legs, or the legs of his donkey, could carry him. He needed to die and be "glorified" in order to reach the rest of the people who needed salvation. Once he was in heaven with his Father, all people would be able to reach him, day or night, through prayer.
This would be accomplished by the rejection if the Jewish people, their judgment and dispersion, so that the "time of the gentiles" would begin. Again, following on in the chapter we have references to Isaiah which say the same: Isa 53 "Who has believed our report? (not the Jews, see v37-38) He is despised and rejected of men. For the transgressions of my people was he stricken, and they made his grave with the wicked. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him." and then the next chapter, speaking of the gentiles: "Sing, O barren. You who have not borne! More are the children of the desolate than the children of the married woman" and the chapter after that: "Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; you who have no money, come buy and eat!.. you shall call a nation you do not know, and nations who do not know you shall run to you"
John then quotes Isaiah 6: "Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and shut their eyes... until the cities are laid waste, and the land is utterly desolate".
So we have in John 12, the rejection of Jesus, the king of the Jews, and by it their judgment which would usher in salvation for the Gentiles. Jesus spoke of himself when he said in v31 "Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out" but "if I am crucified, I will draw all peoples to myself".
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Rob
12:11 We need to remember that when John uses the word ‘Jews’ in his gospel he is very specifically talking about the religious leaders.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
a) Jesus emphasised that belief in him was really belief in God: “Believeth not on me, but on Him that sent me,” as in John 12:44. There is a great tendency in some modern churches to place at least as much importance on Jesus as they do on God. Jesus came to show us the Father. We must never lose sight of the hierarchy.
b) John 12:39-41 uses a quotation from Isa 6:10. Because of the words John uses it is therefore apparent that the vision in Isaiah 6 is speaking of Christ on his throne in the kingdom from Isa 6:1-8.
c) Just a little point I heard from someone: John 12:38-41 speaks of two quotations from Isaiah, the first from ch53, and the second from ch 6. This proves there was only one Isaiah, not two!
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to David
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
12:1 John says ‘six days before the Passover’ but as we have seen before when looking at this chapter, the meal took place two days before the Passover. Here we have another occasion – like the mention of the anointing of Jesus in 11:2 – where details are placed out of chronological order for the purpose of developing a theme.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
V.15 An ass (donkey) is considered an animal of peace while the horse is considered an animal of war. Thus, it is appropriate that Jesus rode and ass, actually a young ass (colt).
V.20 These were Greek converts to Judaism and not Grecian Jews.
V.25 Do we hate our life in this world?
V.27 Relate this to Matt 26:39. Although troubled, as any human would be, Jesus had already stated what was going to happen (v.23).
V.31 The prince of this world is a figure representing sin and death which is bound up in the flesh. It is this which holds humanity captive. Jesus came to free such captives (Luke 4:18). By His death He accomplished this.
V.32 Jesus is talking about being hoisted up on a cross and not ascending into heaven (v.33; Num 21:6-9; John 3:14).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Michael
John puts this chapter very much in the context of the aftermath of the raising of Lazarus. He is mentioned in verses 1-2, 9-11, 17-18. This miracle was the one thing that sealed Jesus' fate above all others, because by it he gained such popularity that the Pharisees couldn't bear to have him alive any longer (11:47-53, 57). They had given the warrant for his arrest, and it is in this context that Jesus openly came to the feast. His internal struggle, knowing he was about to die must have been immense (v27). The only one who seemed to understand this was Mary who anointed Jesus in preparation for his burial (v1-7). By doing this she was saying "sorry" for doubting him (11:32), "thank you" for putting his life in danger to come to Lazarus (11:7-8) and above all, showing her acceptance that he was taking the place of Lazarus in death, for which she now prepared him. She accepted that he was the Christ who would save them all from death, a confession her sister had been able to make (11:21-27), but Mary hadn't until now.
Rob de Jongh [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Rob
12:12 ‘the next day’ follows on from verse 1 thus telling us that Jesus entered Jerusalem on the ass five days before the Passover setting a start day for the way in which this week is laid out in the gospel narrative. Mark 11 in particular gives us the order of the days and provides a basis for developing a calendar of the events of the week leading up to the crucifixion of Jesus.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
12:2 The making of the super was doubtless to celebrate Lazarus’ resurrection. The ‘last supper’ which was held the next evening was to remember Jesus’ death. John 13:4 by using the same idea of a ‘supper’ is expecting us to see a link between the two meals.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
12:17-19 The raising of Lazarus had taken place less than six months before Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem. The common people remembered that amazing event – as doubtless did the Jewish leaders. They must have seen that their opposition was becoming more and more ineffective. These men who had been able to control the people by their words and sanctions that they could being against the people were now less and less effective. A new plan had to be brought into play. They saw the need to remove Jesus from the scene.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
John 12:1 – Six days later there was to be a Passover. The Passovers recorded in John’s Gospel provide us with some evidence direct from the narrative that Jesus ministry was a little over 3 years duration.
1st year of ministry |
Jews Passover was at hand. |
|
2nd year of ministry |
Passover feast of Jews was nigh. |
|
3rd year of ministry |
Six days before the Passover when the Lord would be crucified. |
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Summary Of John
12:1-8 Meal in Bethany
12:9-11 Division about Jesus
12:12-19 Jesus’ entry in to Jerusalem on the Ass
12:19 Pharisees disgruntled
12:20-36 Greeks come to Jesus. Voice from heaven
12:37-41 Miracles did not convince all
12:42-43 Many rulers believed
12:44-50 Jesus ‘cried’ who believes on me believes on God
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Wes
12:4 What a description. It seems that Judas Iscariot always is described as the betrayer. All the good that he might have done during the ministry of Jesus is not mentioned. What a way to be remembered. Hopefully we are not like Judas – with our own plans rather than that of following Jesus.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
WHAT TO SAY AND HOW TO SAY IT
It's no wonder Jesus was able to say and do everything so well. I am always amazed at the way he had answers on the tip of his tongue for the trickiest questions, and how he was able to keep multitudes enthralled as he taught them for hours and even days on end.
Here is how he did it: He said, "For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it." (John 12:49). When you are told what to say and how to say it, how can you go wrong - especially if the instructions come from God himself?
I have turned the words of Jesus into a prayer that I pray, both in a general way for the conversations I have during the day, and also specifically for when I am teaching and speaking. I ask, "Lord, please teach me and help me to know what to say, and how to say it, so that those who hear will be blessed by it."
It is a prayer that I know God has answered. Why not try it in your life?
It doesn't mean I don't ever say anything wrong, but with God's blessing I hope I get more right than what I used to. Make it your prayer that God will teach you what to say, and how to say it.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Robert
12:20-23 The way in which Greeks – gentiles wanted to hear Jesus and were, by implication, followers of him is the sort of think foretold by the prophet – Isa 56:1-7 – where he spoke of a time when gentiles would want to be part of the purpose of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
12:23 The “hour” was the time of Jesus’ sacrifice. He had been working towards this throughout his ministry. On a number of occasions – John 2:4, John 8:20, John 7:8 – we learn that the time was not yet. Now it is. Do we have a similar focus to make a “journey” with a purpose in our lives to serve God?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
12:9 The impact of Jesus’ miracles can be clearly seen here. Of course the raising of Lazarus was an amazing miracle but it was not the first time Jesus had raised the dead. The record here makes it clear that it was the raising of Lazarus, not the presence of Jesus, that brought the crowds – and the Jewish leaders were powerless to do anything!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
12:49 When Jesus said that God “gave me a commandment what I should say and what I should speak” he is quoting Deut 18:18 and in so doing asserting that he is the prophet like Moses that God would send.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
12:4 In describing Judas as Simon’s son it seems that he is the son of Simon the Leper Matt 26:6 so, by implication, the brother of Lazarus, Mary and Martha.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
12:36 “the children of light” is quoted – 1Thess 5:5 – indicating that John’s gospel was available to the Thessalonians. This is quite early in the first century.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
12:29 That the voice “thundered” echoes Psalm 29:3: “the God of glory thundereth”. God “thundered” in John 12 because He was manifesting that He is “the God of glory” and He did this because His son had just spoken of His glory: “Father, glorify Thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again” (Jno. 12:28). And Psalm 29 begins by calling for God to be given glory: “Give unto Yahweh, O ye mighty, give unto Yahweh glory and strength. Give unto Yahweh the glory due unto His name …” (Ps. 29:1,2). The next verse speaks of waters: “The voice of Yahweh is upon the waters: the God of glory thundereth: Yahweh is upon many waters” (Ps. 29:3). The “waters” represent the nations and in John 12 Christ had just spoken with the “Greeks” (Jno. 12:20) so the Word had just gone out “upon the waters” of the Gentiles. And when Christ said “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me” (Jno. 12:32) the “all” includes both Jew and Gentile, the latter being called out of “many waters”.
Nigel Bernard [Pembroke Dock UK] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Nigel
12:36 “the children of light” is quoted – 1Thess 5:5 – indicating that John’s gospel was available to the Thessalonians. This is quite early in the first century.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
12:24 The “corn of wheat” Jesus is speaking of is not just a comment on how one grain of what produces a crop. He is talking about himself. It will be through his death that a multitude of believers will be glorified.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
New Testimony Book – From Bethany To Gethsemane (Brother Peter Forbes)
The Gospel records cover the three and a half years of Jesus’ ministry, but about a third of the text focuses on just one week.
Jesus arrived in Bethany six days before the fateful Passover of his crucifixion, and from the moment he arrives there is an abrupt change of pace in the records. All four Gospel writers now provide a great amount of detail for each day’s events, and by carefully piecing together those details we see the intensity of the opposition Jesus faced, the contrasting characters of his disciples, and how in his darkest hours the Father provided comfort.
This book- 240 pages with charts and tables, a full scripture index, three appendices including a calendar of the week - provides an easy-to-see calendar of events of the final week of the Lord Jesus, and affords insights into those events. Through it we can marvel again at the determination of our Lord to do his Father’s bidding.
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Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
12:50 Jesus was in a unique position in that he understood the Hebrew scriptures perfectly and acted accordingly. Nevertheless, despite our shortcomings, we should strive to understand the scriptures and live the commandments of God in our lives.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
“Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour; but for this cause came I unto this hour. Father, glorify thy name…” 1611 KJV
“Now is my soul full of trouble; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. Yet for this very purpose I have come to this hour. Father, glorify Thy name…” Weymouth Translation
“27. Save me from this hour) *Ct. Matt 26:39 [‘… O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.’]; Luke 22:42 [‘… Father if thou be willing, remove this up from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.’]. Or we may understand the clause to mean ‘Shall I pray, ‘Father . . hour’? If that is the right rendering the Evangelist seems to rewrite the Gethsemane agony of the Synoptics. In Mark there is a real cry for deliverance; here rather ‘Shall I say? Father save me from this hour!’ No! because for this very purpose I have come to this hour.’ Jesus is now feeling the nearness of the arrest and trial: He is absolutely master of His fate.”
Weymouth, 1943 edition notes (emphasis added).
*Textual criticism is a branch of textual scholarship, philology, and of literary criticism that is concerned with the identification of textual variants, or different versions, of either manuscripts (mss) or of printed books.” Textual criticism - Wikipedia
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Valerie
12:25 “lose” in English reads as a passive thing. However the word is translated “destroy” – Matt 21:13 – which maybe catches the sense a little better. A believer who loses his life has actively pursued a life which neglects the requirements of Jesus. In that sense he has destroyed his own life.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter