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v.3 - God has to remonstrate with Job to bring him back to Him. This seems so sad, when at the start of the book, Job was so highly spoken of by God. Perhaps this remonstration stems from words like those he said in ch.23:3
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
Now Yahweh speaks to Job for the first time in the whole of the book.
He challenges Job about his understanding of His creation using similar language and ideas to those used by Elihu.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
It is interesting that God waits until Elihu has prepared Job's mind for this onslaught (out of the whirlwind) before he presents it. God organises our lives the same way. We need to be prepared by circumstances - perhaps over years - before he might finally make a move on a particular issue. Let us be sure to remain open to God's changing of us.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
In all our discussions about how God does things - such as the way that we try from time to time to explain the details of how the atonement works - we should be aware that we cannot answer the questions that Yahweh directed at Job. This should make us circumspect in the way that we speak about His works.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
38:1 God can speak 'out of' many different circumstances. He spoke to Elijah in a 'still small voice' (1 Kings 19:12). The 'whirlwind' was to highlight God's power to Job.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
JOB 38. To show Job His universal power God speaks to him, to show him how small Job’s world was. God also shows him how limitless His creation was
Earth: Where wast thou at the earth’s creation? v.4-7
Sea: The immense size of it. v.8-11
Light and dark: What was there source? v.12-21
The Weather: Did Job have control over it? v.22-30
The Stars: The entire universe. v.31-38
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
God spoke to Job, not to the friends. The Lord brings the whole of His creative power in front of Job, and thereby increases His Own power in Job's eyes, and reduces Job down to the level of a created being.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to David
Elihu's speech sensitised Job to the creative majesty of Yahweh. Now Yahweh speaks for Himself. Finally, Job has the meeting he wanted with the Yahweh (13:22-24). However, he does not get to ask specific questions about his condition or plead his innocence. Instead, he is compelled to listen to a perception check of the Almighty's position vis-à-vis that of man.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Job is called into account in v.1-3, how often we don't know why God allows suffering
- Do we complain what God is doing to bring us closer to Him?
- The trials we often go through are not only for us, but those around us
- Trial is a forceful reminder of true values
Peter Dulis [toronto west] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Peter
38:2 ‘words without knowledge’ echoes Elihu’s condemnation of Job – Job 35:16 indicating that whatever else we might think about Elihu he correctly assessed Job’s mind and attitude.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
38:4 God now challenges Job about His creative ability contrasting with Job’s comments in Job 26 where he challenges Bildad about creation.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
38:3 Job had repeatedly said that he wanted to debate his cause with God. Now he has his chance. However God’s approach is not the same as Man’s. He highlights His glory and contrasts that with Job’s weakness. Job’s desire to reason with God was based upon a complete misunderstanding of man’s relationship with God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
JOY AT CREATION
One of the aspects of creation that always gets my imagination going is what God fills in for us when he questions Job. He asked, "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? ... On what were it's footings set, or who laid it's cornerstone - while the morning stars sang together and the angels shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4,6,7) The Genesis account of creation gives us a very clinical, matter of fact record of how things happened. It deals with order, creative power, life cycles and patterns. But here, in Job, we learn of the emotion of creation.
C.S.Lewis, in the first of his Chronicles of Narnia, The Magicians Nephew, describes the whole of creation as being set to music. Beginning with one lone voice that brought forth one lone light, gradually as more of creation was made, new voices were added until creation became a huge orchestra and choir singing for joy at the birth of a new world. C.S.Lewis may not have been far wrong as he imagined the morning stars singing together and the angels shouting for joy.
We missed the first creation. We were too late. But a new creation is coming and we can look forward to adding our voices to the morning stars and angels as we sing and shout for joy at the rebirth of a new world in harmony with God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Robert
Vs.22,23 The arsenal of natural phenomena that Yahweh has at his disposal makes man's armaments seem paltry. When Gog enters Israel, the divine shall destroy the invaders with what will appear as natural occurrences (Eze 38:22).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Michael
38:31 in Challenging Job about the constellations God is reminding him of his own comments recorded in Job 9:5-10
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
Job 38:16;Gen 7:11 - could this refer to some sort of hydrothermal vents? The Roman geographer Strabo (63 BC - 21 AD) was aware of springs arising from the ocean floor. Also, the ocean floor has cracks spewing out super heated water (660 degrees Fahrenheit plus) due to magma under the earth's crust - this was first discovered in 1977 by the research submersible "Alvin" near the Galapagos Islands.
Job 38:16;Jon 2:5-6 - mountains and valleys exist at the bottom of the major seas. "The Challenger expedition (1873-1876) commenced the first scientific exploration of the ocean floor,during which a canyon 5 1/2 miles deep was discovered in the Pacific." From Christian Evidences, chapter 11 titled, "Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible".
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
38:39-41 Having questioned Job about the majesty of the physical creation Job is now challenged about his ability to meet the needs of the animal kingdom. Thus against the majesty of God’s creation Job is caused to reflect on the way that God cares for His creation – and by implication Job himself.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
I. Yahweh's first speech (Note: God doesn't explain the cause of Job's suffering or reveal a list of Job's sins. Job's problems are minute in the overall scheme of things. Yahweh's response educates Job liberating him from an unhealthy self-focus).
Job 38:1-3 - Yahweh's dramatic intervention: V2 - directed to Job (Job 42:3,7 - Job was more correct than his three friends); V3 - "Gird up now thy loins..." (prepare yourself for effort/action) - "man"<1397>.
A. the wonders of the inanimate creation (God's universal power).
Job 38:4-7 - what does Job know of God's power in the creation? V4 - (compare with Job 9:8); V5 - the suggestion of exact measurements; V6 - (compare with Job 26:7) - "corner stone" (compare with Isa 28:16;Psa 118:22;1Pet 2:4-8); V7 - "morning stars sang" (compare with Luke 2:13-14) - "sons of 'God'<430>" (refers to heavenly angels who were present at and participated in the Genesis creation - believers are sons of God too Gal 3:26-27;1John 3:2).
Job 38:8-11 - who controls the sea? V8 - (compare with Job 26:12); V8-11 - a spiritual application of seas would be nations (Isa 17:12;Rev 17:15); V9 - (compare with Job 26:8); V11 - (compare with Job 26:10).
Job 38:12-15 - who commands the dawn? V12 - (compare with Job 26:10); V12-14 - showing "dayspring"<7837> its place as the earth is "turned"<2015> like clay revolving on its axis; V13 - the wicked are shaken out like dirt from a rug; V13,15 - (compare with Job 24:14-17); V15 - (compare with Job 31:22) - when the sun rises it is like stealing "light" from the wicked who operate in darkness and it prefigures the coming greater dawn of the kingdom age (Psa 37:9,12-13,17,35-39;55:22-23;Matt 13:49-50;2Thess 1:7-9) - God's ultimate plan is to break the rule of sin (Num 14:21).
Job 38:16-21 - has Job plumbed the mysteries of the earth and light? V18 - (compare with Job 18:23-24); V19 - (compare with Job 9:7) - "light" [can indicate understanding (Job 29:3;Psa 43:3), righteousness (Psa 37:6), the presence of the Lord (Isa 60:19-20)], "darkness" [can indicate ignorance (Eph 4:18), sin (Prov 2:13), and the sphere of sin's rule (1John 2:11)]; V21 - God suggests Job's limitations.
Job 38:22-30 - can Job account for the weather in all its variations? V22-23 - God uses destructive snow and hail when appropriate (Exo 9:18,24;Josh 10:11;1Sam 7:10;Isa 30:30;Eze 38:22;Rev 16:21); V24 - "east wind"<6921> (denotes the desert wind that brings destruction Job 27:21), "light"<216>; V25 - "lightning"<2385>; V25-26,28 - (compare with Job 28:26); V25-28 - the miracle of rain (how it is formed, how it is condensed into droplets, how it causes growth); V30 - how is it that underneath ice the water doesn't freeze?
Job 38:31-38 - can Job control the stars, clouds and lightning? V31-32 - (compare with Job 9:9) - God not only made these four celestial entities ("Mazzaroth"<4216>, "Arcturus"<5906>) but he controls them and they appear on time in their proper place; V33 - (compare with Job 9:7-10) - the influences the heavenly bodies have over the earth (compare with Gen 1:14); V36 - this verse is difficult to interpret; V37-38 - rain pours down to relieve a drought-stricken earth, also perhaps an echo of spiritual drought and refreshment from the Bible (Isa 55:10-11;Amos 8:11-13) and when Christ returns (Psa 72:1-7).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Charles
38:32 ‘Mazzaroth’ is the Zodiacal constellations.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
“Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season” Or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?”
There probably isn't one of us alive today who hasn't at some time in their life flipped open the newspaper and read his/her horoscope unaware that we are forbidden to even dabble in such things, and how much God abhors it. We deceive ourselves in citing this passage as a justification for doing so.
Claudius Ptolemy formulated the Ptolemaic system of Astrology, and his Tetrabiblos became the textbook for all Astrologers to this very day. Trying to make Astrology an exact science, he turned it into a pseudo-scientific legalistic religion. While Astrologers have tried to bring the Bible onto their side, the Bible, clearly, is not a friend of the pseudo-sciences (Deut 18:9-14; 1Sam 15:23; Isa 47:10-14).
“Mazzaroth” refers to the constellations and is based on Astronomy, not Astrology. It is Strong’s # <4216>, mazzarah, and means, “noted constellations." This Scripture refers to the Universe in terms of Astronomy and not Astrology.
There are big differences between Astronomy and Astrology. Astronomy is based on the laws of physics, is constant, and explains the Universe based on mathematical calculations of sunrises and sunsets, moon phases, tides, and eclipses. Astrology, by means of horoscopes, claims it can predict what will happen to individuals based on solar configurations and birth dates. It’s goals and methods are very distinct from those of Astronomy. Astronomy is the scientific study of the planets and stars in relationship to others in and out of our galaxy, while Astrology is the supposed influence that these drifting stars and planets have upon our lives and how they influence our fate.
"The secret things belong unto the LORD (Yahweh) our God (Elohim): but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever..." (Deut 29:29).
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
God asks Job,“Canst thou bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the bands of Orion (winter)? Canst thou bring forth (alter) Mazzaroth (lots of lights, constellations) in his seasons? Or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion (time-spans) thereof in the earth (ground)?
Today, by advanced telescopic instruments, we may behold these celestial bodies and learn of their dimensions that are nothing less than staggering! We are compelled with David to exclaim: “What is man that thou art mindful of him” (Psa 8:4), and with Isaiah, “Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of” (Isa 2:22)? In Job 9:9, we read of the stars Arcturus (the Bear), Orion (Betelgeuse), and Pleiades (the Seven Sisters). God called His stars by name (Isa 40:26) and keeps count of them all (Psa 147:4)!
Sir Isaac Newton gave us the velocity of a star as being more than 25 miles, or 40.2 km per second. Arcturus goes 257 miles, or 413.6 km per second, 25 times faster than our sun! Orion is a brilliant constellation referred to also in Amos 5:8. Betelgeuse, the principle star in Orion, has a diameter of over 200 million miles, or 321.8 million km. Compared to our earth’s diameter 7, 926.2 miles, or 12,756 km, it would take 34 trillion earths to fill this star’s space! Betelgeuse hurls through space at a rate of 376 miles, or 605.1 km per second! Pleiades, also known as the Seven Sisters, or Seven Stars is an open star cluster in the constellation Taurus. They are shaped like a tiny dipper with six stars easily visible with the naked eye. It is believed the 7thstar is a variable star whose brightness varies over a period of time cycling between peaks, going from brightest to dimmest. This cluster actually contains around 300 stars as visible by a telescope and drift in one common direction without ever bumping into each other while at the same time revolving around each other! This cluster is 440 light years away. A light year travels at an incredible speed of 186,000 miles, or 3000,00 km per second. We could circle the earth’s equator about 7.5 times per second at this rate!
I wonder what Amos, David, Isaiah, and Job would say today if they had access to telescopes! God, the Creator of our Universe, has revealed Himself to us by these very stars long before the advent of Messiah (Rom 1:20). ONLY God can guide these massive stars!
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?… When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
“Morning” is Strong’s # <1242>, boqer - “dawn (as the break of day).” While “morning stars” is more poetic than literal, the better translation is “dawn stars.” Job describes angels as “dawn stars,” Jesus being, "the bright and morning star" (Rev 22:16).
We read in Gen 1:1: “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heaven and the earth.” In the original Hebrew, we have here a plural noun, angels with a singular verb, he created! What this verse is telling us is that the angels under the one Spirit power of the one Creator did the creating.
The angels created by God before the creation of the universe were created immortal beings (Psa 104:1-5; Psa 148:1-5) making them also, “the sons of God.”
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
38:19 Job is asked whether he understands the properties of light. Even today the most eminent scientists do not have a comprehensive explanation of the way light works or even what it is.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Job 38:32 The Mazzaroth (see margin, ‘the 12 signs’) is unlikely to be a reference to the signs of the Zodiac known today for the purpose of fortune telling. The Zodiac is a band of twelve constellations through which the sun passes each year. It has been suggested that these constellations and their signs were invented by the Babylonians before 2000 BC. Israel were commanded not to worship any graven image, male, female, beast, fowl, creeping thing or any fish. They were also forbidden to worship the sun, moon or stars (Deut 4:15-19). Men have taken images of earthly creatures, crab, bull, fish, goat, lion, ram, scorpion and some mythological (e.g. Sagittarius) figures and identified them with groups of heavenly bodies. These signs of the Zodiac are used for horoscopes, such is the perversity of human nature.
The Zodiac was perhaps part of idolatrous worship in Israel (2Kin 17:16), and Judah (2Kin 21:3). Manasseh worshipped the sun, moon and “planets” (see, margin, 12 signs or constellations, 2Kin 23:5) and all the host of heaven.
When the Lord speaks out of the whirlwind to Job (Job 38:1) is it likely that He would challenge Job with controlling a man-made Zodiac of corruption of His creative work? The “Mazzaroth” or 12 signs in Job would have been constellations named by the Lord, not man. “He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.” (Psa 147:4)
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
38:41 The challenge that the Lord presents to Job ‘who provideth for the ravens their food?’ forms the basis for Jesus’ comments Matt 6:26 and Luke 12:24and is echoed by David - Psa 147:9
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
Job 38 - 40: It's almost as if, in Ch 36 (from v27) and Ch 37, Elihu described to Job man's perspective of God's creative work - the way we humans can see and describe His mysteries of creation. However, when God speaks to Job from the storm and whirlwind, He is describing His work from the perspective of the Creator - something we as humans cannot possibly do. This brings Job back down to the level we all are in God's eyes - like an ant or even a grain of sand! Job is brought to realise that he could never come before God and ask the great Judge why he had been tormented in the way he had. In these chapters we get an insight into the mind of God and become humbled by His lovingkindness towards us, mere sinful mortals in His sight. But for the grace of God and His boundless forgiveness towards us through His Son, we would be as nothing. Oh, the awe and majesty and wonder of our Creator!
Rose Cox [Leamington Spa] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Rose
38:17 Job has spoken of the “shadow of death” a number of times - Job 10:21,22, 12:22, 16:16, 24:17, 28:3– and Elihu did also – Job 34:22– Now God uses the phrase asking Job if he really understands what he is talking about.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
Job 38:7 – “the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy”. Who were the sons of God referred to here?
Heb 1:5 tells us that God has never had a Father-son relationship with the angels. They are the "ministering spirits"of God sent forth to carry out His instructions (Heb 1:13-14).
Job 38:31-32 God describes the influences of the Pleiades star cluster as “sweet”. Arcturus and the associated star patterns are described as “his sons”. The use of this symbolic language to describe these and other star formations may be “the sons of God that shouted for joy at creation”.
The breath taking beauty of the heavens are evidence of God’s handiwork and are described as making statements to the glory of God. “The heavens declare the glory of God”. They perpetually “utter speech… sheweth knowledge” (Psa 19:1-3).
The Lord speaks out of a whirlwind to Job and declares the wonders of His creation (read, Job 38:1 through to Job 40:3). Job response, “Behold I am vile…I will lay my hand upon my mouth” (Job 40:3-4). He was silenced as are we, by the greatness and power of our God. Let us remember, “Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few." (Ecc 5:2).
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
38:4 The challenge to Job about making the mountains should have caused Job to recognise his smallness against the majesty of God. Amos appeals to this characteristic of God –Amos 4:13 – to warn Israel about the God they were dealing with.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
HUMBLED BY GOD
As God answered Job, he didn't directly answer the accusations and questions Job had put before him. Instead, like awesome waves of thunder and lightening that roll on and on, each boom and flash building on the last, the Lord revealed some of His glory to Job. God's answers to Job were a series of displays of His awesomeness and His strength.
Even though Job was the greatest man among all the people of the east, he was nothing compared to the God who created him. Throughout the discourses of Job, we can become quite impressed with how good, great, powerful, rich and wise the man Job was, but when God starts to speak, all of that falls away, and we find that Job, like ourselves, become just a small spot in the creation of God.
As we read through these last few chapters in Job, let's become aware of the awesomeness of God, and as a result let's be humbled before God like Job was. Then, in humility we can begin to serve him in a new way - because we love him, and we owe him our all. No longer will we think he needs us, but we can be honoured to serve the Living God.
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Robert
38:1 We might think it not particularly important to differentiate between “God” and “Lord”. However we might note in the book of Job that “Lord” is found primarily in the first two chapters and the last five chapters. In the early chapters the creator is being spoken of in His conversations and actions. In the latter chapters He is involved, in particular, with His acts and His work with Job. The use of the “Lord” emphasises this.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Nick
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Nick
38:9 we learn here that God is involved in maintaining His creation. He is even at work tending the earth where men do not see the benefits of what He is doing. So clearly He is doing it for His pleasure.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
38:4 “where wast thou?” is a salutary warning to those of us who try to explain Creation. It is interesting that whilst scientist try to explain the “how” God tells us the “why” relating to Creation. Even if we know how Creation came into existence it would help us little. It is knowing why God created everything that is helpful to us.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
Stuart-Caleb Art Courtonel [Rugby] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Stuart-Caleb Art
38:21 the implication God is making is that it doesn’t matter how old, or eminent or knowledgeable man is he cannot explain the details of Creation. Man, and we, would do well to realise this and recognise the authority of the Creator.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
38:23 We have seen – 37:6 – that Job saw God involved in the weather. Now we see that God does actually claim to influence the weather for His purpose.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
38:8 Job seemed to understand that God determined the extent of the seas and its relationship with the land – 28:11 – But knowing something and understanding how it happened are quite different things.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
38:23 We have seen – 37:6 – that Job saw God involved in the weather. Now we see that God does actually claim to influence the weather for His purpose.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
38:4 “Where wast thou?” is a very relevant question to ask those who would say that the Genesis Creation account is not to be taken at face value.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
38:11 We might think it is simply a matter of the laws of physics that the waves break on the shore rather than just continue inland unchecked. Before simply dismissing the comment here as the words of one uneducated in science remember that it is the Creator who is speaking. He made the laws that determine how things work.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
13 v.8-9 - We are reminded that only a proportion of people will be saved, and these by great afflictions to test and try their faith and prove that they will stay with God throughout all these things. The trying by fire is a common idea in scripture. If we are to be in that company that stand in the last days rather than the 66% that are rejected, we must be sure to withstand against the trials that God will surely visit upon us.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
13:2 unclean spirits Revelation 16:13
13:7 smite the shepherd ... scattered Matthew 26:31
13:9 try them as gold 1 Peter 1:7
13:9 It is my people Hosea 2:23
13:1 'fountain open for sin ...' Whilst there will be living waters flowing from Jerusalem - Zechariah 14:8 spiritual regeneration is what is spoken of here.
13:3 This regeneration is seen in the way that the false prophet is 'thrust through' reflecting the behaviour of Phinehas Numbers 25:7 who is commended in Malachi 2:5.
14:2 I will gather all nations Joel 3:2
14:2 gather to battle Revelation 20:8
14:2 gather ... to battle Revelation 16:14
14:2 houses rifled ... women ravished Isaiah 13:16
14:3 the battle ... day Revelation 16:14
14:8 water of life ... proceeding out of Revelation 22:1
14:10 tower of Hananeel ... king's winepress Jeremiah 31:38
14:11 the will be no more utter destruction Revelation 22:3
14:11 safely inhabited Jeremiah 23:6
14:20 holiness unto the Lord Exodus 28:36
14:21 no more Canaanite ... the Lord Joel 3:17
14:5 'earthquake in the days of Uzziah' That must have been some earthquake to be appealed to as it took place generations earlier at least 240 years ago.
14:8 This description of water flowing from Jerusalem develops the waters which Ezekiel saw in vision. It is the water which will heal the Dead Sea Ezekiel 47:8 to allow fishers to fish at En Gedi Ezekiel 47:10.
14:20 'holiness to the Lord' is the engraving that was to be on the high priest's mitre Exodus 28:36 showing that everything in Jerusalem will be dedicated to serving the Lord.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
14:1 - At the time of writing (October 2002) this situation looks as if it could well be just round the corner. World events are hotting up and it seems almost inevitable that if this war goes ahead, Israel will be tied up right in the middle of it. We could easily see all nations around Israel turn against her as a result.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
13:7 The quotation of this verse in Matthew 26:31,Mark 14:27 to speak of the way in which Jesus was forsaken by the disciples must relate to the things we saw in Chapter 11. In Chapter 11 we see the behaviour of Judas in betraying Jesus. Here we see the way in which the rest of the disciples forsook Jesus and fled. So Zechariah shows us the solitude of the lord Jesus in his time of great trouble.
14:8 The simple statement 'in summer and in winter it shall be' marks a characteristic of streams in Israel. Many of the smaller ones are seasonal. They flow in the rainy season --often as raging torrents but in the summer - especially towards the end of the dry season - they carry no water at all.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
ARE YOU READY?
"A day of the LORD is coming," we read. It will be a day like no other but it will symbolise the transition between the rule of the kingdom of men on the earth and the kingdom of God. It will be the defining point when the trend away from righteousness is reversed and evil is not tolerated any more. It will be the day when Jesus returns to reign as king over Israel and over the whole world. It will be the beginning of the time when all people will turn to one world religion and will go up to Jerusalem every year to worship the LORD. And it will be a time when God will directly intervene in world affairs to direct them in a right way. You will be affected by these changes. Will you submit to them or resist them? Are you prepared to turn your whole life around to become God centred or is this life too valuable to you? Those of us who give our lives to God now will take the change much easier. What about you? Are you ready?
Robert Prins [Auckland - Pakuranga - (NZ)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Robert
Zech 13 - Notice the repeated us of 'in that day' starting in Chapter 12:3,8,9,11, 13:1,2,4. There is a continuation of the themes of Zech 12 - despite the chapter division. We should try to work out which 'day' is being spoken of.
14:2 'the houses … ravished', in quoting Isaiah 13:16. Isaiah is speaking of the way in which Babylon would be destroyed. Zechariah is quoting the same words to say to Israel that they would be treated in the same way as the Babylonians even though they have returned in fulfilment of the prophecy about the destruction of Babylon in Isaiah 14. Quite a chilling prophecy to those who could understand it.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
Zech 13:4. “The prophets shall be ashamed” The manifestation of Divine glory and truth in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ will cause all the false prophets to be ashamed of their error. (Zech 12:10) Also compare with Eze 43:11.
Zech 13:9. When the Children of Israel turn to God in truth and in righteousness, He will acknowledge them as His people. (Jer 32:38, Hos 1:9-10) They will be incorporated into His family, and will bear His name as before. (Num 6:27) We as adopted Israelites, have that same opportunity if we truly turn to God in all our ways. How richly we all have been blessed.
Zech 14:9. The proclamation that the LORD reigns on earth as a universal King in the person of His Son will be made in the Temple at its inaugural service.(Eze 43:7)
Zech 14:21. We are told in Gen 9:25 that the Canaanites are a people cursed of God. The Canaanite was in the promised land when Abraham arrived.(Gen 12:6)
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to John
13:4 The 'rough garment' is, in the RV margin 'hairy garment' so here we have a reference to the deceit of Jacob when he sought to take the birthright Gen 27:16
14:9 In saying that 'the Lord shall be king over all the earth' Zechariah is telling the returning exile that things are going to be at least as good as they were in the days of Solomon when he reigned over a vast area of territory. Whilst this did not happen in the days of the prophet we know it will happen when the lord Jesus Christ returns to be 'king of kings and lord of lords' Rev 19:16
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
13:6 It is not written that he was wounded by his friends, for that would not be a fact. But, the house of his friends. They were not friends that pierced him!
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
14:7 Time will no longer be measured in days, for night will never fall. "That day" will be one continuous day (Isa 60:19-20, Rev 21:25, Rev 22:5), and so its light will not be dependent on sun, moon, or stars
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to John
Dan 7:13-14; Zech 14:16-17- a future time of peace when Christ returns and the nations worship him in Jerusalem.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Charles
Jesus, the true shepherd of Israel, was crucified (13:7). When He returns to earth, it will be in triumph, and the Jews will see him for who He is (12:10; John 19:37). He will be the fountain of cleansing for His people (13:1), and will save them from the enemy, Gog and partners, who are destroying the land of Israel. Many Jews will die by the enemy, but the Lord will save one-third (13:8,9). In Jerusalem, He will save half the city (14:2). The topography of the city and region will be radically altered by a great earthquake (14:4,8,10). Waters from the Mediterranean will flow through, and a passage for the Dead Sea to drain into the Red Sea will be created. The Salt Sea will no longer be dead. A great plateau will be created in Jerusalem. This area will be ideal for the new temple which will be built, according to Ezekiel's specifications. True worship will be established, and there will be zero tolerance for false worship (13:3). False prophets will try to conceal their identity and deny their past practices (13:4-6). The reference to wounds in thine hands are to the practices of cutting oneself to entreat a false deity (e.g. the false prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel 1Kin 18:26-28). When Jesus reigns, holiness shall abound (14:20,21). All nations will be obliged to worship Him in Jerusalem; otherwise they shall be cut off (14:17).
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
Zech 14:1-11 says that the nations will agree together, (possibly via the United Nations Security Council?), to go against Jerusalem. The battle will be half through, but then Jesus will come and save them. He went up to Heaven from the Mount of Olives, and He will return to the same place. The world will then be governed from Jerusalem, with appropriate punishments for those who do not obey King Jesus. “Holiness to the Lord” was carved in gold on the mitre of the High Priest under Moses’ law, (Exo 28:36). In the kingdom age the same words will even be on the horses’ bridles, (Zech 14:20). Everything in those days will give glory to God.
David Simpson [Worcester (UK)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to David
13:2 The cessation of idol worship and false prophets is due to God’s intervention. By teaching the people His laws and them being in their hearts the idol worship will cease and the false prophets will vanish. Correct teaching willingly accepted drives out error.
14:2 In saying ‘I will gather all nations to Jerusalem’ Zechariah, in quoting Joel 3:2 must have caused anxiety to the inhabitants newly returned from Babylon. Joel’s words had been fulfilled when the Babylonians destroyed the city – and now Zech is saying the same will happen again!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
13:9 The way in which God was going to ‘try’ the people ‘as gold’ is picked up – 1Pet 1:7 – to speak of the way in which His servants are developed in this life.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
Zech 14:9 First Principles>Kingdom of God>To be Everlasting and world-wide
The Kingdom of God will be a literal kingdom on the earth and last for ever. For more details go to Dan 2:44
Roger Turner [Lichfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Roger
Zech 14:16 First Principles>Sure Mercies of David>Capital City>Jerusalem Glorified
Jerusalem, rebuilt and glorified, will become the metropolis of God's Kingdom which will embrace all nations. Psa 48:2, Isa 52:1, Isa 60:14, Jer 3:17, Zech 14:16, Matt 5:34-35
First Principles>Sure Mercies of David> For more details go to Isa 55:1-3.
Roger Turner [Lichfield (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Roger
13:1 Zechariah speaks of the ‘fountain open’ – quoting Joel 3:18– saying that these words of Joel will be fulfilled to the returning exiles.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
WHY KEEP THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES? Zech 14:16
The Feast of Tabernacles is the only feast that is very appropriate in the Messiah's reign.
1. The Feast of Passover was fulfilled in Christ's death
2. The Feast of Atonement was fulfilled in acceptance of Christ's salvation
3. The Feast of the 1st Fruits was fulfilled in his resurrection
4. The Feast of Pentecost was fulfilled with the arrival of the Holy Spirit
But the Feast of Tabernacles , a Feast of Thanksgiving celebrates the harvest of human souls for the Lord
"Even so come, Lord Jesus"
Peter Dulis [toronto west] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
14:17-19 The punishment upon those nations that will not serve God is to be seen against the short term dominion of Babylon of which the earlier prophet speaks – Jer 27:8
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD (Yahweh) of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles...”
The Feast of Tabernacles (Lev 23:33-36, 39-44) was one of the annual pilgrimage festivals introduced at the time of the Exodus (Lev 23).
The Israelites were required to journey from all over the nation to keep the Feast in Jerusalem, and make booths from Palm leaves. This was the symbol of a great victory referring to God delivering them from the Egyptians and leading them to the Promised Land. It was a joyous celebration. The feast began on Tishri 15 to the 22nd (Sept/Oct).
Alfred Edersheim in his book, “The Temple – Its Ministry and Services,” points out the following combination of sacrifices were used during the Feast of Tabernacles: 71 bullocks, 15 rams, 105 lambs, and 8 goats accompanied with their meal and drink offerings, and were made on each of those days. Both the first and the last day were to be Sabbath days.
To keep the Feast of Tabernacles during the Millennium will require animal sacrifices (Isa 56:7; Isa 66:23; Eze 44 -Eze 46:24). You may ask how can there be a return to a sacrificial system without taking away the meritorious effect of Christ's sacrifice? Ezekiel tells us in Eze 40:38-39; Eze 45:13 - Eze 46:15, that Millennial Israel will have at its center the Temple, and sacrifices will continually be done during the Kingdom Age. The Mosaic sacrificial type system did not take away sin, but Jesus’ sacrifice of himself did. We see that the re-instituted animal sacrifices will be commemorative, and is not about its efficaciousness. The sacrifices will be a memorial of what took place; it is about looking back, just as we do today when we keep the memorial Breaking of Bread.
Just as the ecclesia during this Age is commanded to continue with the Breaking of Bread till Jesus comes (1Cor 11:23-26), those born during the Millennium period will need to understand the sacrifice of Christ, and the types he fulfilled, which are illustrative of his over-coming the power of sin.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
14:2 In Josiah’s day Zeph 3:8 speaks of all nations coming to Jerusalem. Here Zechariah described the details of that coming together of all nations.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
Zech 14:3 - KJV - "as when he fought in the day of battle" - it has been suggested that this (along with Zech 14:6-7) may refer to that famous former day of battle when the sun stood still (Josh 10:12-13).
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Charles
Zech 13:1-2 “In that day” there shall be a fountain of water opened to the house of David that will be available to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and uncleanness. A day of cleansing for the inhabitants of Jerusalem will be like the Day of Atonement. The Priest, washed after releasing the scape goat into the wilderness (Lev 16:26). Then having offered the bullock and goat for a sin offering for atonement, he washed his clothes and bathed in water (Lev 16:28). Then “on that day”. (i.e. 10th day of 7th month), the Priest made atonement for the people and they were cleansed from all their sins before the Lord (Lev 16:29-30). The national cleansing of Israel will be like a Day of Atonement for them. ‘In that day” the Lord will cut off idol worship and unclean spirits from the land (Zech 13:2).
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2012 Reply to Peter
13:6 The wounds in the hand speaks of the crucifixion of Jesus. It was his own countrymen who organised for the Romans to crucify him.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
14:5 The phrase “all the saints with thee” which is speaking of the return of Christ with the glorified redeemed is echoed- 1Thess 3:13 – when Paul speaks of the time of the return of Christ.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
13:3 The requirement that a false prophet be “thrust through” fulfils the requirement of the law of Moses – Deut 13:6-9
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
The glorified saints will have the ability of the angels to reveal or conceal their glory. They shall be clear or dark in Zech 14:6
Compare Matt 28:3 to Gen 18 when Abraham thought they were men.
Here the saints will conceal themselves while they judge houshold 1Pet 4:17 the world Psa 149:7-9 establish kingdom Dan 2:35 build temple Isa 60:10 Israel restored Mic 7:15
The evening represents the time when the saints will enter the completed temple and will shine and fill the temple with glory having completed their work this evening will commence the first day of teh kingdom.
What a wonderful hope!!
stephen cox [Sedgley UK] Comment added in 2015 Reply to stephen
Will there be symbolic "looking back" animal sacrifices in the millennial age when Christ returns? Compare
Zech 14:16-21;Isa 56:6-8;Jer 33:15-18;Eze 43:18-27; plus Ezekiel chapters 44, 45, 46 with Heb 7:22-28;Heb 9:11-28;Heb 10:1-14.
Charles Link, Jr. [Moorestown, (NJ, USA)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Charles
14:3 The fighting “as when He fought in the day of battle” echoes the deliverance brought under the leadership of Joshua when Israel entered the land – Josh 10:14
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
Nick Kendall [In Isolation] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Nick
13:2 The mention of the removal of the ‘unclean spirit’ from the land – the only use of the phrase in the Old Testament – is a prophecy of the work of Jesus who repeatedly healed those with ‘unclean spirits’ Mark 1:23 etc.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
13:6 the wounds in the hands draws on the language in Psa 22:16 which is prophetic of the death of Jesus.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
The summary and comments below were made by Norah Hegarty
13:1-3 every prophet (false) banished and even killed by parents.
13:4 "He" refers to false prophet ashamed of his falsehood, who will no longer put on garment to deceive.
13:5 "He" false prophet claims he has been a farmer from his youth.
13:6 "He" false prophet says wounds not evidence of body cutting as practised by false prophets. 1Kin 18:28.
The Lord Jesus
* never was ashamed of his prophetic vision Zech 13:4
* never put on a prophets garment to deceive Zech 13:4
* never said he was not a prophet Zech 13:5
* never claimed to be a farmer from His youth Zech 13:5
* never was wounded in the house of his friends. Zech 13:5
And are reproduced with her permission
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
13:9 In saying of those who are brought back into the land saying of them ‘it is my people’ draws on the promise that an earlier prophet had made – Hos 2:23
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
14:20 As the Nazarite was “holy to the Lord” – Num 6:8 – so were the horses used in service to be “holyd” – that is separate.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
13:2 the assurance that idol worship will be removed from the nation is a reminder of what an earlier prophet had said – Hos 2:17
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
13:1 fountains are usually associated with water but this fountain is for “sin and uncleanness”. It is rather like the way Jesus spoke to a woman – John 34:14 - of water that would spring up to eternal life.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
14:4 We tend to see the standing of his feet on the Mount of Olives as speaking of the return of Jesus because of the fact that Jesus left the earth from the Mount of Olives and will return “in the same manner” - Acts 1:11.
There is no reason to doubt that interpretation as the context in Zechariah fits. The one spoken of in the prophet is coming in judgment as Christ will be – hopefully in the near future.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter
16:15 - Being clothed upon our nakedness, taken spiritually, is a scripture theme from Eden to the end. This picks up on language of ch.3:4,18, and reminds us also of Exo.32:25, Isa.47:3, Eze.16:37, Hos.2:3, Hab.2:15, 2Cor.5:3.
Peter [UK] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
15:2 This 'sea of glass' is the same sea of glass which we saw in Revelation 4:6. The description is one of the redeemed who have avoided association with the beast system. That there are redeemed men and women there gives us confidence. We know that we can be amongst those. it is possible to, through the blood of the lamb, overcome the world, through our faith 1 John 5:4
The traditional interpretation of this chapter sees the fulfilment of these things largely in the 19th century. The encouraging thing for us is to realise that our God is at work in the kingdom of men now. Even though things may appear to be in chaos we can be sure that the purpose of God is being worked out and that He will send Jesus to the earth. Acts 17:31.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2001 Reply to Peter
seven plagues
|
Lev 26:21 |
Lev 26: - and its parallel chapter Deut 28 - list the punishments that will fall upon Israel if they are disobedient. The use of the 'seven plagues' forces the point that God punishes those who should know His will.
became as ... blood
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Exo 7:19 | |
died in the
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Exo 7:21 | |
upon the rivers
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Exo 7:17 | |
waters; and they became blood
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Exo 7:20 |
The use of Exodus 7 and the plagues on Egypt as the basis of the second vial shows that the judgements of God are against the (false) gods of His enemies. Exo 12:12
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2002 Reply to Peter
image
|
Dan 3:12 |
Yet another echo of Daniel's time and the confrontation with the great Nebuchadnezzar.
which worshipped ... image
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Dan 3:5 |
And yet another link with Nebuchadnezzar's image. Are we getting the message? The kingdom of men cannot be worshipped by the servants of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2003 Reply to Peter
15:3 "Just and true are thy ways" quotes Deut 32:4 which is part of the song of Moses referred to above. It is the song to commemorate the end of the wilderness journey with the prospect of entering the inheritance. Highly fitting at this point in Revelation.
16:1,17 This chapter marks the end of the use of the phrase "A voice "out of "the temple". It is found in 14:15,17, Rev 15:6 and here. The phrase always introduces judgement.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to Peter
16:15 To walk naked is to be rejected at the judgement seat, and so denied the clothing of immortality. It is worth noting that the word "naked" connects the warning given to the Laodiceans Rev 3:17. We are all aware from Genesis that to walk naked is a disgrace.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2004 Reply to John
Chapter 15 is a re-iteration of the triumph of the redeemed saints over the false system of worship. This system is described by certain aspects in 15:2. The beast represents its political power; the image represents its religious philosophy; the number of his name (666) (13:18) represents its moral essence which is fleshly (worldly) (6 being the number of man).
Chapter 16 recounts historical events which have largely been completed. Armageddon, the battle of the great day of God Almighty (16:14,16) has yet to take place. Presently, nations are being positioned in the political heavens which will ultimately culminate in that great showdown. The dragon, beast, and false prophet have an integral part in these manoeuvres (16:13). Traditional Christadelphian analysis describes the dragon as Russia; the beast as Europe; and the false prophet as the papacy.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2005 Reply to Michael
15:3 There is no ‘song of Moses and song of the lamb’ in Scripture. As previously mentioned there are three references to the song of Moses. However it is fitting that there is a song of Moses and of the Lamb. Joined, as it were, in unison. Moses delivered Israel from Egypt – a figure of death. Jesus – the lamb – delivered us from sin and death. The pattern and fulfilment are, thus, seen together.
16:8 The ‘sun’ here is a political power, not the orb in the sky that gives us warmth. So a consequence of the judgment will be that the political power spoken of will oppress man.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to Peter
15:8 There will be no priestly intercession for the world on a national basis, until the judgements are completed. At the conclusion of that time, the nations that remain will be invited to worship before the King in Jerusalem, at the time of the feast of tabernacles as we have read in our second reading today.(Zech 14:16)
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2006 Reply to John
16:1 ‘Vials’ are symbols of judgement. There are other words that could be used to symbolize a container, ‘horn’ for example. Whenever we read of a ‘vial’ we should be anticipating judgement or disapproval.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Peter
15:2 There is not anything as peaceful as the sight of a lake as smooth as glass first thing in the morning. this here is a picture of the nations at rest, the opposite to their situation in the past (Isa 57:20). Fire is a symbol of war, even though the nations have been involved in many battles, at this time that will be a thing of the past.
John Wilson [Toronto West (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to John
Vials (bowls) contain Yahweh's judgements which have been dispensed within the past three centuries. The sixth vial, for example, was the decline, and ultimate disappearance, of the Ottoman Empire starting around 1802 (16:12). The seventh vial will be the judgement upon the apostasy (the false system of worship), and the political powers who will resist Jesus when He returns. And so, now we are waiting for the seventh and final vial to be distributed. Needless to say, that means we are living in the end times. Now is the time to put our houses in order before it is too late.
Michael Parry [Montreal (Can)] Comment added in 2007 Reply to Michael
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2008 Reply to Peter
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2009 Reply to Peter
16:2 The angels go out to pour out God’s wrath on those who have the mark of the beast. There is no time taken to separate out those who are sealed with the mark of God because they have already been delivered.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2010 Reply to Peter
16:16 There are a number of times in the New testament where a Greek word is given and then we are told what it is in Hebrew. This indicates that we should be looking in the Hebrew Scriptures to find the significance of the word.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Peter
The following are abridged notes taken from the books, Hear What The Spirit Saith To The Ecclesias, by Brother John Knowles, Eureka, by Brother John Thomas, and 13 Lectures On the Apocalypse, by Brother Robert Roberts.
God’s Judgments on Papal Rome
Vial 1: A.D. 1789, foreign and civil wars were in operation, and spread its sores from France and afflicting Catholic Europe.
Vial 2: A.D. 1793, great naval wars lasting around 10 years. England destroyed most of the fleets from Catholic countries with a very great loss of life.
Vial 3: A.D. 1796, Napoleonic wars with Austria and Northern Italy.
Vial 4: A.D. 1805, Napoleon (the sun) overthrow of the Royal House of Austria who protected the Papacy with its military.
Vial 5: A.D. 1808, Napoleon descends upon the Papal throne. The head of the Catholic world carried captive to France and all their wealth was stripped.
Vial 6: A.D. 1820, the Ottoman Empire, which menaced Europe, began drying up after the fall of Napoleon. When the Turkish Empire falls to pieces, the way of the saints is prepared (i.e. Armageddon)!
Vial 6 is divided into four parts: 1) The drying up of the Euphrates. 2) The political wonders of the frog-like spirits of ‘demons,’ i.e. the dragon, beast, and false prophet whose mouths speaks blasphemies while claiming to speak on God’s behalf. Like frogs that are unclean, those infected by them, “were united by an unclean religion; all croak the same things” – Brother Michael Ashton, Revelation STUDY GUIDE. 3) The advent of Christ and his Saints. 4) The post-adventual gathering of the powers that be into Armageddon. It is the consummation of the 7thSeal, which fills up the wrath of the Deity upon Laodicean apostasy.
Vial 7: is Woe 3 of the 7thTrumpet, after Armageddon. All the political and church systems (air) of the nations fall. This is the 3rd great earthquake (verse 18); the 2nd great earthquake occurred in Rev 11:13, under the 2ndWoe of the 6thTrumpet, and the 1st great earthquake in Rev 6:12 occurred under the 6thSeal.
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2011 Reply to Valerie
"Armageddon" is thought by many to be a compound word having the actual city of Megiddo in north central Israel as its root. Will the last great battle physically take place near Megiddo? Or, if this is a code name for a much wider scale battle, why was this particular city picked to be a part of that expression?
Again, this being the book of Revelation, trying to figure out this one specific meaning of this one place is not easy. Even trying to come up with the literal meaning of Armageddon is difficult as well. From what I've read, here are some possibilities:
1. mountain of Megiddo 2. city of Megiddo 3. mount of assembly 4. fruitful hill
5. a heap of sheaves in the valley of judgment 6. utter destruction 7. the mount of gathering together - {Quite the choice, huh?!}
Megiddo on the edge of the plain of Jezreel has been the location of several decisive battles in the land - the latest being in 1917 when Lord Allenby outmaneuvered the Turks. This led to their giving up rights to the Holy Land paving the way for a large scale return of the Jews. There are a number of problems, though, with taking this one part of a highly symbolic book in a literal way. If you understand the meaning to be "mountain of Megiddo", the actual site of it is a plain in the valley of Kishon extending inland southeast from Mt. Carmel and known in Roman times as "the Great Plain". Its elevation was only about 70 feet above sea level in John's day. Also imagining the kings of the earth all being gathered to this one geographical place strains the credibility.
In a passage possibly referring to the same basic last days' battle in Joel 3:12, the nations are said to be gathered together into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, "for there I will judge all the nations on every side." Jehoshaphat literally means "Jehovah is judge", and the theme of Joel 3 is that of Gods' judging the nations for their sins against his people. So Joel may be telling us that the nations will be subdued in the valley where the LORD will judge them. Might not the same principle then apply for this verse about Armageddon? If you take the "Ar (Har)" part of Armageddon as "mount", then maybe the allusion is to Mt. Carmel at the western end of the Valley of Megiddo. And it so happens that that was the site of the big contest in Elijah's day between Yahweh and Baal in which Elijah's God (and ours!) defeated the Baals and the people learned that "the LORD, He is God", "the LORD, He is God!" (1 Kings 18:39). To quote bro. Alfred Norris on this -
"Revelation is not otherwise concerned with geography, and we might feel in a book of symbols, a symbolic meaning of Armageddon is as likely as the same for Babylon or Euphrates."
Wes Booker [South Austin Texas USA] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Wes
16:7 Men and women in the world did not see the righteousness of God. His punishment of the wicked is often seen as ‘unfair’ However here the testimony of the ‘angel’ is true and as such should be reflected in our response to God’s judgements in all aspects of our lives.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2013 Reply to Peter
16:9 That those “scorched” “repented not” is an indication of how some men and powers will not be willing to submit to the judgments of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
Rev 15:3 – This verse strongly suggests that two songs will be sung by the saints in the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. Note this verse states, “they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the lamb.” It does not say the song of Moses and of the lamb.
The words of the first song are to be found in Exo 15:1-19
“Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the Lord…”
The song of the lamb that is to be sung in the presence of the lamb (Jesus) is recorded in Rev 5:9. This song is addressed to the lamb. This song will include the words of Revelation 15:3. Which give glory and praise to the Lord God Almighty who made our salvation possible through giving His only Son as a sacrifice for sin.
Together the two songs both give praise to God then to Jesus. The song of Moses is a song unto the Lord. The song of the lamb is to the lamb “Thou art worthy to take the book…” (Rev 5:9-10)
It will also include due praise to Lord God Almighty.
“… and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.”(Rev 15:3)
Peter Moore [Erith, UK] Comment added in 2014 Reply to Peter
15:3 Do we think that the things of God are “marvellous”? Or do we just accept His goodness without a second thought?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2015 Reply to Peter
16:18The lightnings, thunder and voices, echoing Exo 19:16 when the law of Moses was given, is a recurring theme in Revelation being found in Rev 4:5, 8:5, 11:19, 16:18
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2016 Reply to Peter
15:5 The “tabernacle of the Testimony” reminds us of the words in Num 1:50. This indicates that what was in the wilderness was a figure of something greater.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2017 Reply to Peter
15:3 The redeemed who have attained to eternal life praise God. The way they do and the words they use are instructive. We possibly, during our lives, wonder why certain things happen to us. Maybe we even say “why me?” but eternal life will enable us to understand the purpose of everything in our lives. For the redeemed say “just and true are thy ways”
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
15:1 World history would lead one to think that morality is declining and that there is no end to man’s wickedness. However we take comfort in the fact that it will all end with the establishment of God’s kingdom. The “last plagues” here reminds us that the evil in the world will come to an end.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Peter
“And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air… saying, It is done… And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”
“THE Seventh Vial is the concluding period of the Seventh Seal, and the Seventh Trumpet; in other words, the vial, the trumpet and the seal, all terminate at the same time.
When, or at what date, the seventh and last vial shall begin to pour out its wrath, I am unable to say. This, however, may be assuredly affirmed, that it will not begin until after the resurrection period, or ‘time of the dead;’ and the capture of Jerusalem by Gog’s forces, and its recovery by YAHWEH ELOHIM, the Great King.
The crowning events of the Sixth Vial put the Lamb, with the 144,000 in possession of the Holy City. Their throne is ‘the great white throne’ of the Yahweh Name, ‘from whose face, the earth and the heaven,’ by the judgments of the Seventh Vial, will be caused to ‘flee away.’
The Seventh Angel in the ETERNAL SPIRIT clothed with the white linen and golden-girdled company of splendid ones, Jesus and his Brethren; who though incorruptible and deathless, do not let themselves out in their brightness, until they have accomplished the work of this seventh vial upon ‘the Air.’
The judgments of the seventh vial are all in the future. They are the voices uttered by the Seven Thunders, which succeed the lion-roar of the Rainbowed Angel (Rev 10:3,4), and which issue from the throne (Rev 4:5).”
Dr. John Thomas, Eureka, Vol. III, pp. 605, 606
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
“And the seventh angel poured out his vial upon the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne saying, It is done.”
The seventh angel is Christ and the saints (cf. Zech 14:5-7)
THE MISSION OF THE ACCEPTED SAINTS UNDER THE SEVENTH VIAL
“THE events of the sixth vial in the aggregate prepare ‘the way of the kings’ which arise in the light of the Sun of Righteousness. The way of these kings is the career of judgment marked out for them in the full development of the seventh vial, which is at once the consummation of the Seventh Trumpet and the Seventh Seal; and the filling up of the wrath of the Deity upon the nations. The angriness of these, the coming of divine wrath, and ‘the time of the dead, that they should be judged and rewarded,’ are series of events which synchronize with the adventual epoch of the sixth vial. In this epoch, the dead in Christ, both just and unjust, are caused to stand upon their feet again among the living. This standing again, precedes the destroying of them ‘who destroy the earth’ (Rev 11:18). The honour of executing the judgment written begins at the house of the Deity, be found registered in the Lamb’s book of life (Rev 20:15; Psa 149:9; Dan 7:22). Hence, resurrection must precede the setting in of judgment; and thus must begin at the house of the Deity; ‘and if it first begin there, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel of the Deity? (1Pet 4:17). It will be ‘destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power’ (2Thess 1:8,9). The destruction issuing from this glorious presence, is styled in Rev 14:10, ‘tormenting with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Holy Angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.’”
Dr. John Thomas, Eureka, Vol. III, pp. 8,9
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
“And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea...”
“THE Seven Spirits of the Deity, originally styled ‘Providence,’ operated on parties in France and England for the development of the predetermined wrath of the Second Vial.
Nations cannot do what they please, any more than individuals. The great manager of the world’s theatre is the Lord Jesus Christ, whose dramatic programme is the Apocalypse or Revelation given him by the Father; the nations and powers are mere performers played off by him against one another for the denouement of the plot divinely conceived. He creates war and makes peace; and without His permission ‘the powers that be’ can do neither. He would not allow His judgments upon the men of the beast’s sign, and worshippers of His image to be stopped, or interrupted even, for the comfort and commercial prosperity of England, and her Harlot Church, and the nation of sectarian abominations. He paid no respect to the twenty-six episcopal hypocrites in the upper house of Parliament, who prayed for peace, and voted for war. Such a nation had to be punished, as well as their brother hypocrites upon the Continent. England, therefore, could not stand aloof; but was compelled by inexorable necessity to send her children to the shambles, and to share in the miseries she was instrumental in inflicting upon the world.”
Brother John Thomas, Eureka, Vol. III
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2018 Reply to Valerie
15:1 It must have been a comfort to John, having seen so much woe and horror, to see the “seven last plagues”. Won’t it be a joy to realise that all the evil of the world is over?
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2019 Reply to Peter
16:21 Blasphemy is the standard way that human nature responds when unpleasant things happen. Amazing really. God is only invoked when things go badly – and then by people who claim He does not exist!
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Peter
“And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”
The Apocalypse speaks of three beasts: the first came from the heavens and is called the “dragon” (Rev 12:3). The second beast came out of the sea and called the “beast” (Rev 13:1). The third beast came up from the earth, and called the “false prophet” (Rev 13:11).
For an in-depth study of these three beasts I refer you to EUREKA, by Brother John Thomas. But, keeping it simple: the dragon represents the military power. Pharaoh was described as a dragon (Eze 29:3). The beast represents the governments on the Earth confederate with Rome, the false prophet being the Pope/Papacy that “speaks as a dragon:” the Pope declaring amongst so many other things that atheists don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven! Any doubt who the false prophet really is?
We see all these three unclean spirits working together this very day in bringing about their New World Order! What follows? Christ’s return and Armageddon – praise Yahweh (Rev 16:14-17)! Despite all the doom and gloom, we really are living in exciting times!
On a side note: Eze 26:1 and Eze 29:1 are not chronological, as the events in Eze 29:1 precede the events of Eze 26:1
Valerie Mello [in isolation, TN, USA] Comment added in 2020 Reply to Valerie
15:2 “having the harps of God” takes us back to Rev 5:8. There are a number of lovely pictures that appear and re-appear throughout the book of Revelation that we do well to notice and develop because these pictures can be speaking of ourselves.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2021 Reply to Peter
15:3 When Israel was delivered from Egypt and the Egyptian army was dead in the red Sea Moses and the nation sang a song of deliverance – Exo 15:1-19. We can imagine the joy of the nation of Israel at that time. Such will be the joy of those who are granted total deliverance from the power of sin in the coming kingdom of God.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2022 Reply to Peter
15:1 we have already read of “seven angels” in the book of Revelation and we will come across the seam a number of times more. In fact it is only Revelation that talks of “seven angels – Rev 8:2,6, = 15:1,6,8 , 16:1 , 17:1, 21:9
Clearly we see the completeness of God’s activity.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2023 Reply to Peter
16:3 the way that the plagues on Egypt was woven into the record of judgment here should help us to appreciate that the plagues on the world are the prelude to deliverance as they were for Israel in Egypt.
Peter Forbes [Mountsorrel (UK)] Comment added in 2024 Reply to Peter